Disaster for Israel

Respectfully, that’s like asking “Do the Palestinians hate the Israelis because they’re Israelis or because they’re Jews?”

The answer is both.

It’s a Jewish state based on a form of blood and soil nationalism and that’s why non-Jews will always be second class citizens.

The same is true of all states based on blood and soil nationalism.

No, not really. There are a number of non-Arab Christians living in Israel. Is life so bad for them? You said you’d rather be a Christian in Lebanon than in Israel. And since you are not Arab, it’s clear you were using the “generic I” rather than referring to yourself.

Anyway, back to the OP.

Uncle, how is this any different that the normal public stunts pulled by the Jordanian government?

Not to mention that there are LOTS of non-Jewish Israelis (either by religion or ethnicity).

How much longer will some people call Israel the Zionist entity, accuse Jews of not so secretly controlling America and expect a civil response in return?


As an American Jew of indifferent observance who is not overly fond of some of the actions of her Haredi cousins and their ilk . . . this is not how you win me over to your side.

How about “Illegitimate Occupiers of the Palestinian Homelands”?

Awesome! Is it on YouTube with subtitles?

So Israel has to deal with a hostile nation on its border? How is this a new situation?

Israel’s been dealing with hostile neighbours for over sixty years and seems to be handling it.

I don’t see why Israel should even bother talking to any group or nation that calls them Zionists (or zionists). The term makes the viewpoint of these groups and nations clear - anyone calling the Israelis Zionists is claiming the Israelis are outsiders. Why should the Israelis talk to anyone who is not even willing to concede they have a permanent place in the region?

Well, let’s see…

“illegitimate”…according to what measure or law? The only “laws” relating to the regionare the series of British mandates for the region, which were made in a fog of gross ignorance and are a major cause of just about all the existing conflicts and tensions.

“occupiers”…yes, the Dutch are the occupiers of Holland. The Icelanders are the occupiers of Iceland. And the Americans are the occupiers of the United States. The term should properly be applied, though, if one people forcefully displaced another, which is not the case with Israel: most of the Israel was a barren wasteland before the European Jews settled it postwar. And in the cities, they did seize political power but never forced the Palestinians to leave. In fact, about 1 million Palestinians live in Israel, if memory serves. So the Palestinians are also “occupiers,” in that their claim to the land is no more legitimate that that of the Israelis.

“Palestinian”… if you mean this term to say that it belongs to them, I don’t know by what measuring stick you mean.

“homeland”…the Palestinians don’t have a homeland. That’s part of the problem.

Of course, things really start to get muddled when you realize that “Israelis” also includes about a million Palestinians.

The fact of the matter is that Israel started to look more attractive to Palestinians as a “homeland” after three generations of Jewish settlers hacked a living out of the desert and made the place habitable. Then, the Palestinians decided to make their case before the world with acts of random mass murder. Not a viable strategy.

Regardless of all that, the Israelis are not about to commit mass seppuku or all board shuttles for the moon, so unless Israel’s enemies envision committing genocide, some kind of accommodation will have to be made. The Israelis have repeatedly offered to make the Palestinians equal partners in a two-nation state. That has always been rejected out of hand, and the response has always been to fire rockets indiscriminately into Israeli border towns. Frankly, I can’t believe the Israelis’ patience. I would have expected them to carpet-bomb the entire Gaza Strip by now. Especially since the Palestinians refuse to even take the basic first step of allowing Israel to exist. I know if my neighbor started lobbing bombs into my backyard and raving that I had no right to exist, I’d shoot him in the head the first chance I got rather than negotiating with him.

That’s a bunch of racist, bigoted bullshit that’s just as stupid as the bigots who whine about the Israelis being a bunch neo colonialists who stole the land from the Palestinians.

Also most Israelis take a much dimmer then you of genocide and would puke at that screed you just wrote.

Beyond that, Mace was being more than a little tongue in cheek.

How can it be “racist” when the Palestinians aren’t a race and, for that matter, neither are the Israelis–or the Jews?

Most Israelis do take a dim view of genocide. That’s why they dislike so many nations/groups talking about wiping them off the map. Note that they have and have had the power to do so to the Palestinians, but haven’t–despite the Palestinians (stupidly) giving them every justification for doing so.

I don’t think Mace was being tongue-in-cheek at all with charged terms such as “illegitimate” and “occupiers.” Those words are no doubt screamed by every suicide bomber and rocket launcher just before he kills a bunch of Israelis.

I think John Mace was being entirely tongue in cheek- saying something the “opposition” would say when not at all believing it himself. That statement was inconsistent with his other posts and was playing off the post he had quoted.

Of course only he can answer for himself, so I could have read it completely wrong.

Yes, completely tongue in cheek.

So a statement from one half of the Jordan parliament is a disaster for Israel. What would you call the rest of the Middle East being bent over a table by Israel and the U.S. and its allies every time they try to resist? The only thing they can do anymore is send suicidal teenagers and lob random rockets. I thought Iran could get some nukes and make things interesting, but even the EU slapped them down. For Yahweh’s sake, North Korea can swing some crappy firecrackers. Get your shit together guys.

Then again, that is sorta sad. Ya know what? It’ll all be OK. Maybe Israel really is about to collapse in humiliation.


If so, I apologize for the implication. But I was more attacking the terminology than I was criticizing you. Also, Ibn Warraq seems to be a committed anti-Semite, so my reaction after reading his earlier posts was a bit polarized (and no, Ibn, I’m not Jewish).

The question I raised in another post is something, I feel, that needs to be asked: what exactly do the Palestinians expect the Israelis to do, leave en masse?

Make sure poor Redfury or poor Damuri doesn’t read this post.

Anyway, please tell me what I’ve said that makes me “a committed anti-Semite”?

Anyway, why would I possibly think you’re Jewish?

FTR, I don’t take the accusation as an insult, merely an extremely stupid statement.

No, Ibn Warraq dislikes some of the actions of the Israeli government and some Israeli people, which is a pretty reasonable tack. Being against the deeds of the Israeli government does not make one anti-semitic by itself; he has never shown that he dislikes Jews as a group, especially for their being Jews.

You talk like a tumor.