discouraged about humanity

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
1

I have very recently been trying to challenge the long-standing fact that I am cynical about humanity. How long have I been feeling this way?

The other day I was sorting through some old stuff and found this from a “fill-in” journal I kept when I was 15:
Question: “Do you ever wonder why bad things happen in the world?”
Answer: “No. Human nature makes it obvious.”

That’s the most concise answer I’ve ever provided for ANY question, by the way. I actually still remember how instantly the answer came to me when I wrote it down.

The more I try to learn about the world–politics, history, economics, ecology, etc–the more discouraged I get.

Tonight I tried to discuss this with my husband:
Me:" You live in the same world as me, don’t you?"
Mr. Olives: … [not touching that with a ten foot pole]
Me: " I mean, you know the same things I know about history, and politics…"
Mr. Olives: “Right.”
Me: “Okay, so, why is it I have come to the conclusion that humanity is more or less a despicable scourge upon the earth, a parasitic virus-like plague that is doomed to its own destruction? Because as far as I can tell, I’m seeing the same things you are, but coming to different conclusions.”
Mr. Olives: “You only use one criteria.”
Me: Human atrocity? [meaning war, disease, colonialism, torture, slavery, oppression, etc.]
Mr. Olives: "Right. You only use horrible atrocities as your measurement for the value of humanity, but you ignore the other stuff.
Me: “I don’t think I ignore good things… I think I just see more evidence for cynicism than optimism. I mean, overall, do you truly believe we’ve done more good to and for the planet than we’ve done harm?”
Mr. Olives: We virtually wiped out polio. That’s pretty good.
Me: [and this is where my logic is breaking down] But that was done in our own self-interest.

You know, I currently have a great life. I have a loving husband and a comfortable middle-class existence. I can have smoothies with my lunch and play video games. Not only that, but I’ve experienced some crazy amazing good humanity in my life, not the least of which I received from Mr. Olives himself… but also from total strangers.

And yet… I spend so many nights angry at the world, and afraid of it. I spend so much time laying awake in the terror of the night thinking, “It’s better for me to be dead. There are too many horrible unspeakable things that could happen to me.” I keep expecting everything around me to perish in a holocaust of cruelty and greed.

When people ask me to pay attention to goodness and understand that good things are just as likely, it falls flat with me. For example… one of my heroes is Nelson Mandela, who spent decades rotting in prison for the cause of apartheid. Through the whole thing he was totally composed, dignified, and focused. When he became the leader of South Africa it was real vindication. What a guy!

But I can’t bring myself to think of ending apartheid as evidence that humanity is good. I see compassion and love and equality in this context as retaliatory action against the hate that was already in place. I see the hate as the natural order of things, and the ending of apartheid as the minority enacting change. In my world, love is rebellion.

Is there fault in that logic? I think there must be, because I don’t believe individuals are inherently or typically bad… I only view the humans as bad on broader terms, when it comes to assessing the behavior of mass groups of people. From a meta-perspective, I see humans as highly manipulable, self-centered, and dangerous. Probably one’s feeling about humanity is not logical to begin with, but deeply emotional. However, I don’t particularly want to go on being this cynical. I’m only 23 for god’s sake. I want to be at least 60 before I start raving about the imminent doom of humankind.

Is there a new angle for me, an opportunity to see this differently? What am I missing?

If this doesn’t belong in this thread, I’m not sure where it goes. It’s somewhere in between personal rambling and trying to raise some real philosophical issues. Mods, please to move as you see fit.

2

Long-term perspective, perhaps?

On a global scale, when has life been better for a larger number/percentage of people in the past? This past year we reached a milestone: more overweight people than malnourished people. Lifespans have more than doubled in the century+ since Pasteur helped develop germ theory. People are no longer limited by distance in regards to communication, and we are accumulating and distributing knowledge to a degree that’s unprecedented. I have vastly more information at my fingertips than existed in the world when Jesus was born… when Gutenberg first printed his first Bible… probably when WW1 began. This wasn’t even close to being true 12 years ago.

As far as apartheid goes, remember that its ending was but one in a long-line of racially oppressive governments, ideologies, and cultures that have fallen, a process began in the 18th-century with the formation of the first British abolitionists. At the time South Africa freed Mandela, they were already standing alone in a world whose predominant culture came to end officially sanctioned slavery and was involved in its own inward-fight against racism, anti-semitism, etc.

This world didn’t just spring up out of nothing… tens of billions of people worked their way out of a lot of muck in order for you to be in that comfortable home. I have no idea how strong you are in history as a subject, but if you want to see people who had it rough, read about life in the European “Middle Ages”, or immigrant districts in NYC between 1870-1930.

Then again, maybe it’s just you. :wink: For myself, I can’t help but seeing the world in optimistic lights… that’s just me. :wink:

3

I’m a natural pessimist and cynic, but in this case I lean ever so slightly towards a strange sort of optimism.

In my experience, roughly 80% of humans are kinda okay. Not great, but they won’t knife you either. They probably pay their taxes and love their kids. Another 19% are various forms of arsehole. The final 1% are the people who make it all worth it. They are the ones who make me feel it’s worth getting up in the morning. They are worth a hundred of the others, each.

4

As for worrying that humanity is having a bad effect on the planet…again, it all goes back to our own self interest. The planet itself doesn’t care what we do, what we’re worried about is keeping the planet inhabitable for ourselves. Global warming is a bad thing because it would hurt us. Of course, many other organisms would suffer along with us, but the Earth has been through worse. The evolution of grass a few million years ago caused the extinction of thousands of species. That doesn’t mean grass was bad for the planet, it was just bad for all those guys who couldn’t handle it.

Anyway, what we consider good and bad is all just our own perception. Why do we take the time to save species that are going extinct? Because we like to have them around. There’s nothing inherently good about recycling, it’s only good in that it benefits us.

Maybe it would help to see that humans are animals too. If lions were the ones that developed technology, they’d be in the same mess, attacking each other and committing horrible atrocities. The only reason humans are harming everything at such a large scale is because we have the ability. Any other animal with enough firepower to torch large parts of rainforest would do it if it would help find their next meal. The fact that we have any restraint at all says something.

The default of the animal kingdom is “evil” in a sense; everyone kills and eats each other. Humans on the other hand are (or try to be) above that sort of thing most of the time. Sure lots of people do horrible things, but lots of people don’t do horrible things, and maintain some sort of civilization. That’s an accomplishment in itself.

5

I totally hear what you’re saying and I’m in the same shoes that you’re in now. I’m questioning whether I want to have children because I don’t know if I can handle raising a child through all of the modern day crap that we ourselves create. Why bring another human being into this world only to suffer through other people’s greed, anger and lack of compassion?

I think that it’s the small miracles and random acts of kindness that we overlook. When someone does something bad, it not only alerts you to the horrible, dirty side of humanity, it also hurts a bit of yourself because they are people, your people. You start to think “how can my fellow man do these atrocious things?” True, bad things happen in life, but so many good things also happen that we don’t get to see enough.

There are people who work and volunteer for organizations that help the unfortunate. There are people who put more care into providing you services to make your life better. You may not know how much other people care, but they do. They’re out there.

I have two examples that really made me feel like there are worthwhile people in this world.

#1: When I was in high school, I used to volunteer for this food dispersion program. I would get up at 4am and arrive at the warehouse by 5am. I helped various people from various churches basically shop Costco-style from a warehouse of donated food for their meals for the homeless program. We all donated our time at an ungodly hour to gather donated food for people who really needed it. There was never talk of religion or beliefs. We took pleasure from the fact that everyone there was doing a bit of good for other people and enjoying the company of the other volunteers.

#2: During my senior year of college, I volunteered at a food bank. My friends and I got together and arrived at the food bank at 8am to help make and package lunch baggies for the homeless. We did everything from mixing the tuna and mayo to cutting the brownies and individually packaging them for the kids’ lunches. We spent all morning and some of the afternoon working tirelessly to produce hundreds of bagged lunches that would be given to homeless families who were lined up outside of the food bank. My friends and I didn’t think we were doing much, but when we saw the look of gratitude from the people who received those lunches, it was like we could feel their thanks if that makes sense. At the end, the supervisor of the whole operation came out and talked to us. He told us that he’s glad every weekend his volunteer quota is always full of young people who want to give back. He said that every weekend he spends at the food bank gives him further hope that his fellow man does hold compassion and exercises it continuously, no matter how little the act. He started tearing up and actually had to stop a few times to wipe his eyes because he was so happy that there is never a lack of food or volunteers to give their time and a bit of their heart.

Maybe you have to have been there to feel those experiences. I don’t know if I could ever fully convey the emotions those experiences invoked in me. I guess you have to go out and see these amazing people yourself to believe and really feel that maybe this world isn’t so bad afterall. There will always be dark moments, but hope will also be there to provide light for those who lose their way and their belief in their fellow man.

6

Google ‘confirmation bias’ and ‘selective perception’. If you have a theory you’re wedded to, you’ll be inclined to select for evidence that proves your theory. Not saying just you; it’s a common human trait but if you truly want to overcome it, you need to understand the mental processes at play.

Then read some Albert Ellis. He’s the Rational thinking guy. He explains how we choose our perspective; often to our own detriment.

You might also look to being screened for depression. I’ve known pessimists in my time, but few say things like

. That’s a red flag to me that your thinking is a little more skewed to the negative than that of a regular pessimist.

Point is, you don’t need to suffer your way through life. You can get assistance to adopt a less negative perspective. We can try to convince you until we’ve typed our fingers off, but for every case someone will make to you to prove good in the world, you’ll find one to counter it.

As for my point of view, I share Anne Frank’s philosophy. Even in the midst of her horrible situation, Anne Frank wrote "Despite everything, I believe that people are really good at heart. "

I’ve read enough psychology and had enough spiritual experience to firmly believe that man’s natural state is a state of love, however illness and injury to mind and spirit prevent people from being in the state of love. I don’t see this as

. Rather, I see human beings as fragile, damaged creatures that don’t manage very well at all.
Remember, the wounded animal bites. The hate and misery you see is response to pain, not evidence of evil.

But I won’t persuade you of this. Actually, few people share my point of view. You might, however, become less negative. Do get screened for depression/anxiety and do have a read of Ellis. And good luck in your quest.

7

I’ve been through some pretty bad shit personally. Not anything newsworthy, but the kind of situations that can drive one quite easily to decide that “everybody blows goats”.

But you see…

I look at people who assume that “everybody is bad until otherwise proven” and - they never accept proof! If someone is a total angel and even levitates to choruses of little bodiless winged heads, then those people say “he’s faking it!” Oh. OK. Right. So, they never change their minds, thus cutting themselves from a lot of good people and good things.

Assuming that “everybody is good unless otherwise proven” has some advantages:

  1. I actually do change my mind, unlike the aforementioned.
  2. It’s less tiresome.
  3. I’ve discovered that many people will behave better than they used to if you convince them that they can. And worse if you convince them so… so by Pollyannaing my way through life without being completely blind to reality, I actually get better results (at training for example) than many of my colleagues who don’t go through the work of telling people “I know you can do better.”
  4. While I’ve met my share of “complete discards”, most people have good and bad mixed. Take this friend of mine: Mom once said “that guy can’t be trusted at all!” and I replied “yes he can, he’s perfectly trustworthy as long as there’s no money involved. And when there’s money involved, he can be trusted to do whatever brings him the biggest economic benefit, so you just have to figure out what it is and get out of the way before he runs you over.” I definitely don’t consider him no saint :smiley: but why should I let his greed keep me from enjoying a good conversation?

The bad experiences I mentioned? They’ve given me a great radar. It doesn’t always work, but each failure increases accuracy. I can use it both to detect assholes and to know who will respond best to what kind of impulses*.

  • I don’t consider myself a manipulator because I use this to do with people what they have asked me to do with them… sort of like the difference between a good therapist (who had to detect and manipulate people’s triggers in order to help them) and a con man (who does the same but to hurt).
8

Thanks for your insightful responses.

This is actually the kind of thing that makes me wind up viewing humanity as doomed in the first place. I’ve lost hours of sleep thinking about the victims of Vlad the Impaler or the miserable life of serfs. For some reason instead of thinking, “Gee, I’m glad my life’s not like that,” I immediately think, “Oh my god that could actually happen to ME!”

It absolutely is just me. I like hearing from people who are optimistic about humanity because I can examine their thought patterns and adjust mine accordingly. You have pretty much summarized my husband’s argument… it appears to be a common thread among the optimists.

Well yeah, my general assessment would be similar… but I believe that if you put any one of those 80% in the right circumstances, they would eat their fellow humans for breakfast. I don’t think Hitler and Franco and European colonists were much different than anyone else… I think they just got that right “mix” to propel them into circumstances of unspeakable atrocity. This hypothesis is supported by social science research… practically anyone will commit atrocities if they are ordered to by a position of authority (see: Stanford prison experiment.) Nazis soldiers were not unspeakably evil sociopaths, they were regular joes like you and me doing what they were told to do because they didn’t see any alternative.

This is a perspective I haven’t seen before… and this might work as a jumping off point to challenge my own perceptions. Out of all the animals, we are in fact the only ones who have moral dilemmas in the first place.

Very cool experience. I do volunteer work, but often I come to the wrong conclusion–that not enough people care and that I’m fighting a losing battle.

Yes, I am aware of this theory and I am quite certain that this must be going on here. I’m certain because there are other perfectly rational people in the world, such as my husband, who have come to different conclusions than I have. I’m trying to figure out how optimists think so I can work on attacking my pessimistic cognitions.

Ahhh, you said the magic word! I’m a super huge fan of Ellis’ “New Guide to Rational Living.”

Um… yeah, I didn’t mention it before. I’ve got all sorts of psychological crap going on, and a laundry list of personal traumas. But in a sense, I thought that might be irrelevant, because as far as I understand the “rational” perspective of Ellis, it’s the cognitions you have to attack. Knowing why I have the perceptions I do doesn’t do much to change them… I really have to look at the difference between the way I think and the way an optimist thinks, and move on that level. I’m actually about to start a different kind of therapy, Cognitive-Behavioral which in many ways is the brainchild of Albert Ellis and Aaron Beck… so I’m trying to step away from the “blah blah blah my poor life” spiel and really work on negative thought patterns.

I totally agree with you that I am selectively percepting… I’m just trying to figure out how to quit it.

I admire your thought processes here. My “blowing goats” experiences (eeewww) have given me great compassion and perseverance. I think in that sense I have drawn some positive out of it.

9

“When I despair I remember that all through history the way of truth and love has always won. There have been tyrants and murderers and, for a time, they seem invincible, but in the end they always fail. Think of it, - always!”

      -- Mahatma Gandhi

I keep this pinned to my bulletin board, it kind of helps somehow.

10

You must remember that you are seeing the world through the eyes of TV and newspapers.
Sadly it is a newspaper maxim that ‘bad news sells’. The headline **‘Serial killer on loose’ ** sells more papers than ‘charitable contributions rise’, for example.

In addition, the doings of political leaders are widely reported.
I have a low opinion of these people. No matter how worthy they start, they almost always finish in an orgy of stupid, greedy and selfish behaviour, designed purely to benefit themselves and ensure they are rich and famous when they retire. There are far more Bushes and Blairs than Gandhis.

But consider the regular folk who help the elderly across roads, who volunteer at soup kitchens, who raise decent kids and who are genuinely loved and respected. These are the majority.

Your concern for others is admirable, but I think you are taking the troubles of the World on your shoulders.
Just do your bit. Vote warmongers out. Join Amnesty International. Chat to lonely neighbours. Pick up rubbish and recycle it.

11

Have you ever read “Ishmael” by Daniel Quinn?

I cat totally identify with your frustration at being cynical, and this book helped me find ways to channel those feelings. It is not a traditional read. It is indeed a fictional account of an extremely well-read and insightful telepathic gorilla, but you’ll have to trust me that the important part of the book isn’t the messenger, but the message.

12

I would just note that the root of “bad things” in the world is that, assuming everyone just wants to live happily, they still have to figure out how to accomplish that without getting in each other’s way. E.g. if there’s only one plantain in the world and two people want it, something is going to be sacrificed.

But of course we found a solution to this problem. If there’s two people and one plantain, you need to figure out how to get twice as many plantains. Invention may make it so that there’s always just some new “plantain,” but all the newer stuff isn’t so dire and people don’t need to kill each other over iPods like they had to kill each other over farmable land.

Spend a bit of every day trying to figure out how to make everything in life be easier to get to more people, and then look about. You’ll notice that 90% of everyone around you is also doing that. Heck, we get paid to do that. If there’s any greater proof that the system works, that is it. Half of everyday, the grand majority of humanity spends it’s time just figuring out how to solve the big problem of making everyone happy. And the other half, they go back home to peal the plantain.

13

Glee brought up the main point I was thinking. The vast majority of people tend to view the world through the eyes of the media, but the media is notoriously prone to reporting more bad news than good because it’s what gets the ratings and circulation numbers. All things considered, it isn’t at all difficult to see how one could derive a pessimistic outlook on life based on little more than this. The vast majority of us can’t live our lives in such a way that we can personally witness the human good that happens throughout the world. We have our own lives and careers, and these don’t generally afford us the time to go on do-good pilgrimages to witness or participate in the better part of humanity.

At a more basic level though is the fact that human nature is just like nature in general: Wherever possible, the path of least resistance is followed. The problem with humans is that the path if least resistance is often immoral, illegal, or just plain evil. It is only the fact that we have more advanced brains than the animals that we are able to apply morals and ethics to the decisions we make and actions we take on these concepts. It is usually more difficult to live within the bounds of morality and ethics because it requires that we refrain from indulging in our more basal desire to take the easy route. Morality and ethics tell us that this route is usually wrong because it is ultimately selfish and tends to infringe on our fellow man’s personal rights and freedoms. It is easier to take than to earn. Most people aspire to live their live more or less within these bounds because it is the right thing to do and, on the whole, people want to live their lives in a manner that reflects well in the eyes of their peers. A small percentage of others, not so much.

Couple this with the fact that we tend to remember the bad more than the good. Bad experiences tend to stick in our minds much more strongly and for much longer than good ones. Because of this, those that are prone to take a pessimistic view of life will often choose to assemble their bad experiences into an encompassing life-view while tending to dismiss most of the good experiences as either being not quite as good as they remember, or merely being one shining moment in a sea of gloom. This is exacerbated by the fact that feelings of sadness and depression can linger and remain much longer and impact us on a much deeper level than feelings of happiness and euphoria. This would be why depression is a known illness but there are no entries in the DSM-IV for “clinical happiness.” Negative emotions simply affect us more deeply than positive ones. Chemical imbalances and medically recognized disorders notwithstanding, the difference is in how we deal with them and roll them into our personal world view.

I’ve had the sort of childhood where more bad than good happened on the whole, but I’ve always tended to come away maintaining the idea that things are generally pretty good over all. Mostly this is because I grew up to be a pretty stubborn boy, and rather than get depressed at life’s misfortunes, I tended to get angry at them and the proceeded to try and look for a way to avoid them in the future. This much I suppose appealed to my fascination with figuring out how and why things worked. Although chiefly focusing on the geekier side of electronics and programming, this part of my thought processes had a habit of leaking into other aspects of life, so I tended to resolutely try and figure out how life worked, too. YMMV of course, that’s just me, but it’s just how my attitude and outlook on life has shaped the way I view and live in it.

14

You realize, of course, that while you can look to others for guidance, you have to do all the real work yourself. And it might be painful at first, but it gets easier. Practice makes perfect.

Try this: Every time you have a negative thought about humanity, just say “cancel” to yourself. Then replace that with a better thought. For instance: “Wow, Apartheid really sucks. Cancel. It’s a good thing there is no more apartheid.”

And try to see things more realistically. You understand that Vlad the Impaler could impale you, and thousands more, at any time. Very true. But truthfully, what are the odds that that will actually come to pass? Try to assign a probability to it. Don’t shy away from actual numbers. One in a hundred? One in a thousand? One in a million? Compare that to the odds of someone holding a door open for you. One in two, maybe? Where are you going to put the smart money?

15

Yes, I know I have a lot of work ahead of me. I’ve spent quite a while singing the “poor me” tune and it’s getting boring and irritating–and also, I’m not much happier overall. I’m absolutely willing to do the work. I’m just in the “tool-gathering” phase.

I like this idea very much. Very practical. writes it down

16

Good, glad I could help! :slight_smile:

I’m having a hell of a time finding it on the web, but there is a list of common types of distorted thinking. Ah, here it is. It seems like you enjoy dabbling in all-or-nothing thinking, overgeneralizing, and/or catastrophizing. There’s no shame in it – we all do it – but it helps to be aware of when the problem is with the world and when it is with your thoughts. It’s easy to change your thoughts.

17

Yes! I love Big Brother. I love Big Brother…

…oh, wait… :stuck_out_tongue:

Seriously though, thanks very much for the information.

18

Actually your viewpoint is not cynical at all. Rather it is highly optimistic, and you just haven’t realized it yet.

Many people who meet me at first believe that I’m a cynic. That’s because on the topics that normally come up for discussion, such as politics, business, religion, education, and art, by attitudes are awesomely cynical, so much so that it even frightens other pessimists. But in fact my cynicism is directed exclusively at institutions. I have tremendous faith in indviduals, and I believe that they’re nearly perfect when unfettered by institutions.

The key link in the argument is that institutions are dehumanizing, and humans are de-institutionalizing. (I know it’s not a word, but it ought to be.) To express abiding hope in individuals one must attack the institutions. To express the opposite one must do the opposite. Hence those who insist that we should have a government to rule our private lives, or a corporation to serve us coffee, or a Mullah to preach to us, or a TV show to tell us what to believe are the true cynics. Those who resist all those things are the true optimists.

Further discussion in this highly entertaining book.