Sure, the no spoilers thread has spoilers, since just about anything could be a spoiler. It also has sillyness like posters being afraid to mention what a characters name is. Oh, and it’s boring as day old shit. So, if that’s that * way they are supposed to* then victory!:dubious:
If it bores you then go to the non-boring thread. Why do we have to keep going around and around on this? Why do you want to force us to play by your rules and your rules only? There is a thread out there that fits your preference. Just go to it and stop bullying those of us who don’t want to be spoiled.
The non-spoiler thread is working rather nicely, but it’s clearly working well despite the rules (which have been flouted nine times, by my count), not because of them. If all the garbage in the OP about zero tolerance, no outside information, etc. – which isn’t being followed anyways – were to be removed, I’d say it’s just about the perfect, one-size-fits-all thread: spoilers are mostly in links and therefore must be clicked on, everyone is free to post, and no one is whining or bullying. I’d say that thread’s success illustrates that everyone can indeed post in the same place, and three stickied threads are superfluous.
I have. But this is like saying “well this new rule shouldn’t bother you because you don’t want to do that”. The point is- **we don’t like new rules. ** I don’t want anyone to play by my rules, and I don’t want to play by Irishmans rules either. I want to play by the SDMB rules. And, that thread, with it special one of a kind rules is outside the SDMB rules.
And we sure as fuck don’t like dudes saying we’re BULLYING people because after all, we’re doing EXACTLY what Irishman asked- complain *here. *
How the fucking hell is that bullying?
Not at all. I don’t think Mtgman is trolling whatsoever, nor is he deliberately trying to cause trouble. Others are. Can you seriously not see the difference between what he’s said and saying “HAHA YOU SAID YOU HOPED THE BUDGET WAS BIGGER!!! THAT’S OUTSIDE THE SHOW!!! HOISTED BY YOUR OWN PETARD, HYPOCRITE!!!”?
Really? So when you posted that I had violated the thread rules by hoping for a bigger budget, you weren’t at all trying to mock the strictness of the rules by trying to demonstrate the ridiculous levels they can be taken to? You actually thought I’d committed a spoiler, and that other people would read what I said and the story would be spoiled for them?
I appreciate that you guys are making the case for me, about how childish you are in these matters.
I told you to shut up because you took a big turd in the punchbowl. The idea that stretching “I hope the budgets are bigger” into “SPOILER! SPOILER!!! NOW THE STORY IS RUINED!!! YOU VIOLATED YOUR OWN RULES!” is fucking absurd, and it’s exactly the sort of thing that ruins the discussion.
Okay, so we have two scenarios.
In one, the people who want to discuss the show openly including spoilers from book knowledge can do so in the spoiler thread. The people who want to discuss the show without spoilers can do so in their non-spoiler thread.
In two, the people who want to discuss the threads with spoilers from the books can do so, and people who don’t want to be spoilered just simply cannot ever discuss the show.
How in the world is the former better than the latter?
The people who do not want to see spoilers ARE NOT TRYING TO PREVENT YOU FROM PARTICIPATING IN YOUR OWN DISCUSSION, however, you guys are doing precisely that. It’s not that you’re fighting to have your own discussion - you have that. You’re fighting to make sure that we can’t have our discussion. Why? Because you’re so upset at the idea of people having a non-spoiler discussion that you will, in your case, tell people just never to discuss the show, and in the case of others deliberately try to hijack and ruin those threads?
What do you gain here? Why is your way superior? It sucks in theory. It sucks in practice. We tried both methods last year, and the seperate discussions was far more successful. So not only do you want to stamp out our discussion, you’re actually willing to degrade the quality of your discussion to do so. Who wins in this scenario?
You simply cannot be serious. You cannot be making this argument in good faith. Again, I’m not saying this just because I disagree with you. I disagree with Mtgman, but he’s not making ridiculous, childish arguments.
Nothing you linked to is a spoiler. It does not spoil the story for anyone. No reasonable person would say so. And you know this. You are only trying to act as if the rules are so strict and so ridiculous that you could then reduce those arguments to the absurd. However, the actual rules are nothing like you are contending.
You are essentially being a brat - in the same way a 10 year old might, if he were at a museum with delicate objects, and his mother told him not to touch anything, and he said “I guess I can’t let my feet touch the floor! I can’t blow my nose! I can’t use this water fountain because you said not to touch anything!” - you clearly know what was meant, and what any reasonable person would take it to mean, but making your childish point is far more important.
Spoilers are things that reveal things about the future of the story. If I were to say “I ate pizza while I watched the show last night”, it would be pretty fucking ridiculous to say “pizza wasn’t on the show, why are you bringing up outside information!? hypocrite!”
And yet you probably would, given your examples above. The most deliciously ironic point of your entire post is when you were calling for us to go back and act like adults. Read your own posts.
Just to clarify this point, I am a full-time moderator, but in the Game Room and IMHO. So I’m a “Real Mod” in every sense, but CS isn’t my responsibility - I’m just stepping in for the Game of Thrones threads.
(And yes, FWIW, I do keep up on this thread. I also welcome anyone who has specific questions to PM me.)
Thank you. And you’re doing a excellent job. I think you made a bad call here, however.
Sorry, thanks for the clarification.
Gukumatz, the OP of the no spoilers thread has stated that he considers comparisons to the book, such as found here
to be non-spoilers. Moreover, he also doesn’t consider generally vague notes about future events to be spoilers, such as found here
I find myself in agreement with the former being decidedly non-spoiler material, and the latter I consider to be minor spoilers at best (worst?). Given this agreement between myself and SenorBeef, who are generally diametrically opposed on such issues, as well as the lack of uproar in the current thread when this information was posted, does it make sense to amend next week’s episodic thread to explicitly allow such book comparisons and minor spoilers? Or is the policy to remain unwritten that book comparisons and minor spoilers are allowed? Or, most sensibly in my opinion, can you combine the so-called “ZERO SPOILERS” and “CLOSED SPOILERS” thread into a single weekly thread, especially given that the latter has only 14 posts and none since Monday, but using the closed spoilers verbiage instead of the zero tolerance language?
Yeah, good work. After you linking to a bunch of stuff like people mentioning the show budget, or mentioning that they like one of the actors, I just dismissed it all out of hand without reading every detail of every link you posted. Everyone is super impressed by your nitpicky GOTCHA YA. Book comparisons are stuff that belong in the spoiler threads.
I do think the closed spoiler thread may be a little redundant - last year it was more of a “ask for specific background information about the show without necesarily being spoiled on everything” type thread, so if it goes in that direction it may be more useful. But I don’t really care if there are a thousand spoiler threads - my only concern is that people who don’t want spoilers have somewhere to go.
I understand your frustration now, and I feel your pain. I hadn’t realized you are illiterate.
Good luck!
I feel sorry for him, too, but only because he’s having to deal with people making the most ridiculous arguments I’ve ever seen.
Let’s boil this down: what is your end goal here? Why do you want the rules rescinded? Because the usual reason for wanting a rule rescinded is to be able to do what the rule forbids. Assuming that is the case, why should you be allowed to go in a thread and tell people things they don’t want to know about a show, i.e., spoil them? Why should the mods permit you to be a jerk like that and stir up a bunch of crap?
Come on, we all know that wanting something to just be a courtesy means you want to be able to violate that courtesy. Why would the mods want to do that, when that’s what caused the problems last year?
I feel sorry for SenorBeef, too, but only because he’s having to put up with such a stupid argument. You even know it’s stupid, or you wouldn’t be trying to trick him or, worse, insult him into doing what you want.
You guys know this won’t work: you’re just badgering him because you didn’t get your way.
Honestly I don’t care what the rules are, as I won’t be participating in the thread.
The reason I won’t be participating I can’t say in this forum. He’s acting at junior moderator, applying the rules arbitrarily, and responds with derision and insults when it’s pointed out to him. And apparently assumes that any criticism is based on personal animosity.
I didn’t have personal animosity toward him before, but I’ve gained it in these exchanges, because he’s earned it.
What an original question! I wish all those objecting to SenorBeef had even attempted to answer this question!
clears throat
I mean, between your post and SenorBeef’s post where he couldn’t be bothered to click more than two links (but nevertheless felt more than comfortable condemning the entire lot with really over-the-top rhetoric), I think this thread should be renamed “Reading iz hard.”
Wow, what a incredible summation! I bow in your direction, sir!
I’m not applying rules arbitrarily. You guys are just being incredibly childish. Saying “someone posted that the ratings were good! that’s an outside source! spoiler! Someone posted that they hoped the budget increased! Outside source! Spoiler!” knowing full well that those things aren’t spoilers. You are creating ridiculous straw men, and then calling me a hypocrite for not freaking out over them.
You are essentially demanding that we write a 400 page rule sheet for the thread and have it triple checked by lawyers just so you can’t come up with some ridiculous exception that could potentially run afoul of the rules. Everyone in their right fucking minds, including yourselves, know that someone saying “I hope the budget next year is bigger” is not a spoiler and could not reasonably interpreted as a spoiler, and yet you throw it out there as proof of my hypocrisy?
And why? Because you are genuinely concerned that the people reading the thread will be spoiled by encountering such information as someone hoping for a bigger budget? Of course not. Because it violates the rules of the thread? Not really - you’d have to have an overly literal, legalistic interpretation of the vagueness of the thread, basically intentionally nitpicking we didn’t write a long legal contract. You know full well that such sentiments wouldn’t run afoul of the rules. So why then, are you pointing out this stuff? Because you’re pissed that we have a place to have a discussion, you want to enforce your will on us to make sure we don’t, and you’re going to use whatever childish tactics you can think of to point out our flaws.
This is why I’m treating you like this. You’re being disingenuous brats because you’re having a tantrum over the fact that we have somewhere to discuss the show. I haven’t treated everyone who opposes me that way - as I said, I’ve not said Mtgman is being childish or engaging in personal hostility. I think he’s wrong, but he’s approached this subject honestly and like an adult, so I can respect that. Whereas most of the others are throwing out the most ridiculous arguments, stuff they can’t possibly believe are valid, just to try to attack us.
The irony is that this proves exactly why this stuff was necesarily all along - last year the people who engaged in this behavior did so in the actual episode discussion threads, at least this year we’ve cordoned it off to ATMB.
Nope. Here are the rules: *"Now, on the other hand, suppose you’re on the other side. You want to discuss or ask a question about a story, and you are unable to do so without revealing a vital piece of information that might ruin a surprise for those who haven’t yet experienced it, please use a spoiler warning or spoiler tags.
When do you need to warn of spoilers?
Obviously, if the material is new, some people will want to experience it for themselves without knowing the plot. A TV show you see on the U.S. east coast will not be seen for several hours later on the west coast. And perhaps not for weeks or months in a different country. Also, many people record shows to watch later, so just because the show have been aired doesn’t mean everyone has seen it.
Although a work may have been well known for quite a while, some folks may still be unaware of particular plot points. Agatha Christie has been dead a long time, but there are still new students and others coming to her mysteries for the first time, who don’t want to know that the butler did it. On the other hand, anyone who doesn’t know that Dorothy could have gone home anytime by clicking her heels, well, the hell with ‘em.
It should be evident from these examples that we can’t give hard-and-fast rules about when to use spoilers. Instead, we have guidelines that involve common sense and courtesy: if you’re revealing a major plot element that could ruin the first-timer’s experience, then please DON’T. If it’s a brand new work, be careful about revealing minor plot elements, as well.
Also, please don’t put a spoiler in a thread title. “This week’s episode: Raymond dies!” is NOT a nice thing to do. "
*
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/...d.php?t=562482
Add in the meta-rule of “Don’t be a jerk” and those are the rules that the SDMB has operated under for years.
What we don’t need is special rules for your precious oh-so-special little thread.
In don’t know who made up the rules or where the came from, BUT THEY’RE THERE. And they’re very specific, and there there is no real wiggle room.
Personally, I think they were rather stupid, but I can live with them. But when I point out that you on your self-appointed role of moderator, are not addressing posts that violate the rules, you perceive that as an attack on the rules and on yourself personally.
Which you are doing here as well.
And we are the babies? Me thinks thou wahwahwah too much.
Oh, and I forgot to mention, in the thread you NEVER responded to my comments about the two posts being spoilers. You immediately told me to “shut up” and accused every critic, as a group, of threadshitting.
Even in this thread, when I admitted I misinterpreted one of the posts I mentioned, you just continued on with your attacks against anyone and everyone who had problems with the rules or your interpretation.
You seem to have a real need to make this personal, which I don’t understand at all. This place is supposed to be fun. Lighten up, Francis!
We apparently do, because look at yourselves. What you’re doing here is what you did in the episode threads last year. You guys ruined the discussion, and because you’re not allowed to ruin the discussion this year, you are raging pretty hard about it. The irony is that you guys keep proving over and over again that we were right to get a handle on you right off the bat.
The irony of your post is that you quoted one segment of mod rules to support your case, and then refuse to acknowledge the legitimacy of another set of mod rules, arbitrarily based on what you want to apply.
In any case, “don’t be a jerk” was violated flagrantly and constantly in the episode threads last year, and in this discussion - which, without harder rules, would be in the episode thread right now rather than an ATMB thread. Your way doesn’t work and the ultimate irony of it all is that it doesn’t work exactly because you have this attitude.
I did respond to your comments. Extensively. A post saying “I hope the budget is bigger next year” is not a spoiler, nor could anyone ever reasonably interpret it as one. Therefore, your interpretation of it as one is deliberately unreasonable.
I’m not a moderator. I did not self appoint as a moderator. I just started the thread laying out the solution we used last year. The mod assigned to the threads because he was familiar with the material agreed with the basic gist of what I was going for, and added his own set of rules. The only thing I’ve done since then was insist that discussion about the rules go into this thread, so we don’t ruin the episode threads, and I’d imagine everyone reading the episode thread is grateful for that.
How in the world am I "wahwahwah"ing too much? The only thing I’m doing is fighting back against you guys. If you guys fell off the face of the earth and never posted to any of these threads again (and by you guys, I mean the people specifically throwing a huge tantrum about it, trying to throw up whatever ridiculous argument they can, not everyone who objects to the policy), that’d be great. I’d be content to have the threads work as intended, as they worked at the end of last year, and never have to raise the issue again. You guys are the ones constantly fighting and crying that a place where we can have a spoiler-free discussion exists, and you will not be happy until it’s crushed. I’m not the one making up absurd arguments.
I also don’t interpret all criticism as an attack on me purposely. How many times do I have to point out that Mtgman, by my view, is totally wrong, and yet has not acting like a spoiled 5 year old? Additionally, I don’t think the attacks are on me personally, so much as the group of people who’d like to read spoiler free threads, which includes me, but isn’t limited to me.