I’m a big fan of improving how we treat others, even surrendered enemies, in the last 80 years.
Being marched off blindfolded and in your skivvies isn’t exactly what I’d call inhumane treatment in war
Depends on how cold it is.
Do that in January in Moscow you could kill someone, or leave them maimed by frostbite. As an example.
Well obviously. It’s in the mid-70s in Gaza right now.
It’s certainly nowhere near the worst thing that could happen to you, but there’s no question that these photos are a propaganda bonanza for Hamas or that it would have been relatively easy to avoid creating this situation. There’s no question It’s a screwup (though capturing Al Qassam fighters is still a win).
It may be a situation where the guys being surrendered to aren’t prepared to deal with a dozen guys with suicide skivvies and knife blades taped to the bottom of their feet. Put them in a truck and send them to HQ. The officers will now what to do,
Compared to everything else people are criticizing the IDF about regarding how they are conducting this war, personally I find this to be very very minor. But I see your point.
Perhaps you won’t mind a digression since we are speaking of captured hamas.
How do you suppose the IDF treat them? Do they begin cutting off fingers with pruning shears in the hope of learning the location of hostages?
…no, absolutely not.
They’ll certainly be interrogated (and the IDF says they’ve gotten useful information from prisoners already), but no, they would not be tortured like that, nor would they be killed.
Actually very well. There is an excellent book " Taken Captive: A Japanese POW’s Story by [Ooka Shohei]. He and others were treated with care and courtesy from the moment they were captured. it’s a first hand account.
Prisoners were stripped (or worse) where there were incidents of grenade suicides.
I wouldn’t think so.
I would also imagine that soldiers with injured or missing family members aren’t in a position to come into contact with prisoners. I like to think of myself as a vert nice, law abiding person, but if my sister had been… molested, I’d want to talk to those buys with a base ball bat.
Sometimes prisoners were treated well; other times the wounded were shot to ensure they weren’t hiding a grenade.
That fear isn’t outlandish in this case - there are reports from first responders after Oct 7 of bodies booby trapped with grenades, for example. And it has happened in prior conflicts.
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But like I said, it seems to me that a decent bit of PR damage could have been avoided by dressing the prisoners again before sending them elsewhere.
“Testimony from released detainees and human rights lawyers, as well as video footage and images illustrate some of the forms of torture and other ill-treatment prisoners have been subjected to by Israeli forces over the past four weeks.”
It was the storied of the release young Palestinian prisoners that brought that to mind. I assume they are greatly exaggerating, as far as I know, it has never been mentioned.
Given the nature of war I expect there to be instances of appalling behavior on all sides.
A big difference is how the command structure deals with such incidents. Where there are investigated and prosecuted as crimes that is a sign of a good actor. Where they are ignored or, even worse, encouraged that is a sign of a bad actor.
Very important for the Good Guys to make it crystal clear these sorts of things are wrong and will be dealt with if they want to still be seen as good guys.
Of course, all sides will be inclined to report the worst about everyone else, in some cases make up lies and spread them.
War is very messy and not at all pretty.
Maybe the IDF unit didn’t have spare uniforms with them. Perhaps they thought they had poison hidden in their clothes. In the IDF unit’s place, I’d just get the prisoners out of there and let someone who outranks me worry about it.
Look, this is far from the worst thing to happen this war.
All I am saying is that this caused some PR damage (clearly - look at this thread), could be used to radicalize, and it seems like it would have been relatively easy to avoid.
There could very well have been some circumstances I am not aware of that made it harder to avoid. We aren’t in a position to know that. That’s why all I said was that I hope the IDF looks into this.
It is, indeed, far from the worst thing that’s happened. But it’s a bad thing, and it sure looks like a completely unforced error. Sure, strip them to check for bombs, etc. then search their clothes, and give the clothes back to them, minus anything dangerous. Then cart them off to wherever Israel takes POWs.
Yes, I’m just curious. I do compare this to WWII. No one gave a damn if the Japanese POWs stood (or sat) around in their underwear for a while. Few cared about how many died in the fire bombings of Dresden and Tokyo. Perhaps having press embedded in units instantaneous communication has much to do with it.
Stripping people and transporting them blindfolded is part of dehumanizing the enemy. It doesn’t seem like something bad if you think of them as lesser, but it’s not something you want to see your parents or children being subjected to.
Treatment like this isn’t only bad because of the PR ramifications. It’s bad because that’s not how fellow humans should be treated.