You think terrorists actively trying to kill you are ordinary criminals?
Criminals, or POWs. Pick a fucking lane.
Never mind the assumption that these guys are all terrorists. Which assumption the IDF apparently doesn’t share, given they have subsequently released at least some of them.
Who’s getting worked up about this?
They’re first and foremost terrorists. Duly elected by Gazans.
The guy still posting about something seemingly “trivial”, I’d say. That’s not me, I don’t consider any violation of the laws of war to be “trivial”.
Tell that to the IDF who released them.
None of the people identified in the photos by family (shopkeepers, journalists) were Hamas representatives. So … “Bullshit”, and …
This response has nothing to do with what you’re responding to. Hamas was elected as a governing power.
I’m sorry, I thought we were talking about the people rounded up and held blindfolded in their skivvies in a sandpit.
Were you talking about some other victims of warcrimes?
“But … whatabout Hamas?” has got zip to do with this situation.
It’s just a constant stream that’s been going on for weeks. Magiver happily ignores anything that doesn’t paint all the Gazans as evil, even referring to an election that happened 15 years ago.
At the risk of Godwinizing the thread, Hitler was duly elected as well. Did we just round up ALL the Germans and sit them almost naked in the street?
And how did they get linked to Hamas? They were in a suspected stronghold. Some of them were vetted and released.
CNN
“We investigate and check who has ties to Hamas, and who does not,” he said. “We arrest them all and question them. We will continue dismantling each one of those strongholds until we are done.”
As much as I enjoy discussing this with someone supporting Hamas’s brutal clothing scandal I’v got stuff to do.
Same way you’ve linked them - they were Palestinian and in Gaza. The IDF has admitted they rounded up all males of an appropriate age in the area.
They were in a shelter in their hometown.
Sure, buddy…
Hamas deliberately try to blend into the civilian population. So if the IDF comes upon a group of men they have to detain them all and try to sort who is who.
That’s not unreasonable. Making them strip to check for weapons or bombs isn’t unreasonable, either. But not giving them their clothes back immediately afterwards is unreasonable, and humiliating, and was frankly a stupid thing for Israel to do. If they want people to surrender, or if they want civilians that they pick up in their broad sweeps to cooperate, it’s helpful to Israel if the Palestinians have some vague expectation they will be treated humanely. Photos like these are counter-productive to Israel’s goals.
I saw an IDF video earlier today bragging about capturing the head hamas guy’s house an a credit card. Would have been more impressive had he been inside the house.
In relation to the skivvie clad hamas guys. Some of them surrendered, and some of them were followed by guys with suicide vest. s. It would be a problem to have their shirts back and wonder if one of the suicide guys managed to make his way in. they apparently did just want to turn them over to be locked up as soon as possible, as they would soon be back in combat.
I find it sad that you can’t seem to understand the difference between “voluntary” and “forced”.
I might be OK with wearing a bikini at the beach, but not at all OK with being stripped to just my underwear in the middle of a city street that’s part of a war zone.
Your attempts to find counter-examples that “prove” (somehow…) that every single person in Gaza would somehow be OK, with forced to strip by enemy soldiers is just… weird special pleading of the worst sort.
But regardless of how you or I might personally feel about the matter, the fact is that doing that - stripping enemy soldiers down and refusing to re-clothe them after they are deemed free of threat - is against the Geneva Conventions and the rules of modern warfare.
Maybe I’m just a softy who sees Palestinians as being as human as I am, and as entitled to dignity as I am. Sure, Hamas were evil. That doesn’t mean I have to be evil, too.
Some of the guys who surrendered had guys with suicide vests following them.
The IDF guys expected to have people shooting at them again, and didn’t want to worry if a guy with a shirt had explosives on him.
There are subsequent pictures of the captives being driven off in a continued state of undress. That is a violation.
If the clothes needed to be burned or otherwise destroyed or permanently confiscated the IDF is still obligated to provide clothing to any captives. That’s another violation.
Criminals are also entitled to clothing.
On top of which - we don’t actually know their status. They could be Hamas. They could be a local neighbor hood watch group or a bunch of men not connect with Hamas. They could be a mix (probably a mix). It actually doesn’t matter - once they’re captives there are standards as to how they should be treated and this does not meet those standards.
Either way, driving off them them loaded into trucks nearly naked was not OK. Try to justify it all you want, it still won’t make it right.
If someone is trying to kill me or rape me or both from my viewpoint it doesn’t matter that much what the nuances of their descriptor might be.
Sure. That’s what makes having everyone take their clothes off for inspection reasonable. What is NOT reasonable is failing to give back the harmless bits of clothing to the men before hauling them off somewhere else.
Then they couldn’t tell them apart from the suicide guys. They were expecting to be shot at again, and just wanted to get those guys out of the way.
From what I’ve seen lately, this makes you a hamas supporter. Even though IIRC, you’re Jewish.
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I haven’t actually seen that. I’ve been fairly vocal online about treating Palestinians as human beings, and i haven’t been attacked as a Hamas supporter for it. Yeah, people are touchy. Something about war brings that out in people. But exaggerating the pushback doesn’t really help anything.
In asymmetric warfare with suicide bombers, it really is a complicated issue.
“Okay, we’ve caught and searched 10 guys, put them over there and give them their clothes back.”
“Wait, 10 guys? I thought we had 9 guys, plus I don’t remember that guy in the blue shirt.”
“Well I thought I heard someone say 10 guys. And I remember blue shirt, but that guy with the yellow shirt and the beard doesn’t look familiar. So maybe they pulled a switch somehow.”
“Okay, look we’re all vulnerable out here in the open and we know there are bomb vest guys in the area. Just strip them all down again and toss them in the truck. We’ll sort it out when we’re not in danger of direct fire and/or suicide attack.”
See what I mean? Especially since I would assume that letting people you’ve already captured get blown up by later suicide bombers is probably frowned upon too. Sometimes making sure you and your prisoners are safe (even if humiliated) is the best course of action when in an active combat zone.
I think the IDF just skipped the middle sentences in my (made-up) dialogue above.
Cite for there being suicide bombers with this lot?