NATO intervention in Bosnia and Herzegovina eventually worked.
Seems like it could in Gaza too. But using more Arab member states.
Step one is to defeat Hamas and demilitarize Gaza. Then the rebuilding of Gaza and support of Palestinians can begin. It will take years to achieve any stability. It would be a major commitment in personnel and finances from the International communities.
Sadly it will cost lives. There’s a lot of angery factions in Gaza and deadly incidents would be expected. Peace doesn’t come without sacrifice.
She also flat out says that Israel had no interest in governing Gaza and that by working with Arab countries and other allies Gaza can be rebuilt after the war. It would be nice if we could address the actual serious problems with her platform - for example, that the end goal being Palestinian statehood should be more explicit, and that we are even less likely to attract Arab support for the plan without that being the case - without pretending that she said something she didn’t, like that Gaza is going to be “wiped off the map”.
Lemme ask you something. Is Israel being an existent, independent state important to you? Can you appreciate that an existent, independent Palestine is important to Palestinians?
Now let me turn your question around to you - where did I say Gaza would be wiped off the map? I said Palestine. To which you probably have some propaganda line about there not being a Palestine on the map anyway.
…you, uh… you do know that they don’t have a state now, right?
“Palestine” isn’t on the map (and hasn’t been since the Palestinians tore up the partition plan maps in 1948). “Gaza” and “the West Bank” are, as occupied territories, and they aren’t being “wiped off the map”.
If you’d read any of the dozens of posts I’ve made previously about how important it is to give the Palestinians stake in our modern society by giving them a state, you wouldn’t be asking me this. What does that have to do with anything?
I’m struggling to understand the point you are trying to make. If it is that a two state solution is crucial, and that we need to work to bring it about as soon as possible, then I agree; if it is that Netanyahu’s administration has failed to do so, and in fact worked to make it harder for this to occur, then again, I agree.
But what on Earth does this have to do with your post?
I guess when you said that she was threatening to “wipe Palestine off the map” that you would have pointed to something like a religious far right whackjob saying we should annex Gaza, not someone saying flat out that Israel does not want to manage Gaza.
There are Israeli officials you can point to who do say crazy shit about annexing Gaza and “wiping Palestine off the map”, but what this lady proposed was handing Gaza off to an international coalition.
Let me turn that around. This war is out of control, and the only way to solve it is to turn Israel over to an international coalition. How does that work for you?
Here’s an Israeli official saying that the West Bank should be annexed:
That’s a clear example of exactly what you claim I refuse to admit - an Israeli minister speaking against the two state solution.
But again, the clip you linked is not that.
It’s what I consider to be bad, counterproductive, dangerous policy; because I think the only way we even have a chance of making this work is if we explicitly lay out a path to a two state solution from the start.
But what she is advocating - a demilitarized Gaza overseen by the international community - is not Israeli annexation of Gaza; it’s not even Israeli occupation of Gaza. If it was actually achievable, it would definitely be an improvement over the status quo, for Palestinians and for Israelis.
And now we’re equivocating Israel and Hamas. Nice.
My answer to you would be “Make me”. I realize that this is Hamas’ answer as well; as you can see, that’s precisely what the IDF is in the process of doing.
I never said Hamas, I said Palestine. And the ambassador never said Hamas needs to go, she said there could be no Palestinian state. You are the one making them the same, not me.
And I realize that there is no easy answer, but you are not even listening to yourself at this point. I know that you have written here about the importance of a two state solution. But can’t you see that a region controlled by an international coalition is not a Palestinian state? The mere mention of Israel being turned over to an international coalition made you immediately angry, but you don’t see how that notion would also upset Palestinians?
BTW, I’m not suggesting Israel be turned over to an international coalition, I was just trying to put you in the mindset of the Palestinians to the idea that Gaza should be. The anger part you got, the self reflection part, not so much.
It’s almost like you aren’t reading my posts, and are arguing with what you think my position is rather than what it actually is.
When I say “she didn’t actually say X, she said Y” this doesn’t mean that I support Y. I may strongly oppose Y, for exactly the same reasons you do. I am simply pointing out that Y is not X.
When you use language like
In a thread where Israel has been repeatedly accused of ethnic cleansing, that’s where I thought you were going with this.
Not a quote where an Israeli official talks about a plan that would involve Israel withdrawing even further from Gaza.
You and I seem to be talking last each other here. You are correct that I am not talking about Gaza being turned into a parking lot. However, while your nice ambassador mentions an international coalition, can you show me anywhere that she says the Palestinians will at any time in the future have any sort of authority in Gaza? Because I’m not seeing that. I’m seeing a proposal for an endless international coalition.
I would think that it is obvious that international occupation, while not as good as independence, would be better than occupation by the hated Israelis, which is the status quo; and that this would be an obvious difference when compared to Israel, which is already an independent state. But maybe that’s not as obvious to everyone.
Presumably once the international community takes over that will no longer be up to her. But like I said before, my own position is that this should be explicitly outlined in advance.