…I don’t even know what you are going on about now.
I haven’t said that America should stop the airdrops.
I’m saying the airdrops are inconsequential, and they need to be doing other things as well. Like putting pressure on Israel to let the trucks through.
What am I going to do in the meantime? Apparently repeat everything I’ve said to you already.
Of course.
I’m well aware that plenty of Americans support what is happening to the Palestinians in Gaza. Thats kinda why everything is so horrible right now.
And what makes you think other things aren’t being done? Do you read just headlines?
No, they’re terrible because the current government of Israel is hell bent on genocide. At least half the problem here is one group of people blaming another group for what a third group is doing. Put the blame where it belongs: on the Netanyahu & Crew engaged on ethnic cleansing and murder.
Are other people aiding and abetting? Yes. But it’s Netanyahu’s crowd calling the shots on the ground, they bear the brunt of the responsibility.
…have you not read any of my posts in this thread?
What on earth gives you the impression that I just read the headlines?
And America and much of the rest of the world have given them the green light to go ahead.
There is nothing wrong with blaming the Biden administration for its support of the way Israel has conducted this war. There is plenty of blame to go around.
I really don’t care who bears “the brunt” of the responsibility. That isn’t the point of anything I’ve argued here.
I’m sorry, Broomstick: I respect you a lot. But you seem to be arguing with me for the sake of arguing. There isn’t anything constructive that will come out of this conversation, I won’t be engaging you any further on this.
The US fully supports the Israeli military incursion into Gaza. The US has provided materiel, UN vetoes and propaganda support from the beginning. It is a US/Israeli operation.
It’s not a military incursion. It’s a war. It was started by Hamas which is nothing short of a terrorist group backed by Iran who is backing Houthi attacks on ships. And yes, the US fully supports Israel’s efforts to defend itself.
Actually it is. There is no war. There is no battle line defined by the meeting of opposing forces. Israel is not taking war losses. It’s troop losses due to enemy action are just above accidental auto traffic deaths in Israel proper. There is no taking of territory. The entire area of Gaza was held under siege, by Israel, prior to the incursion. Using snipers to murder civilians is not an act of war, or for that matter an act of national defense.
The purpose of the incursion is to create a need for reconstruction. Reconstruction, by Israel, will then serve as a cover for colonization. All under the guise of preparing the area for statehood.
All of that is your opinion and does not reflect the hostages and fighting. All you’ve described is war with an enemy using guerilla style tactics. When Hamas is defeated and the hostages returned the war will be over.
As long as Hamas is deliberately using civilian infrastructure to operate from grannies and 5 year olds will die. It’s a war. One they started by deliberately targeting civilians.
…can you give me a number, how many Hamas soldiers “deliberately using civilian infrastructure” have been killed so far since October 7th? Israel must have incredibly accurate numbers here. Here is the flash update from a couple of days ago:
A bus. A Mosque. Houses. In the streets. How many of those that were killed were Hamas soldiers?
From today:
Was Uncle Nahed Al-Saqqa Hamas?
Video footage from Kahn Younis, which was, until last month, was one of the “safe zones” in Gaza:
Were those seven children Hamas? What was the actual target here?
Video footage of the historic Barqouq Castle in Khan Younis.
Dates back to 1387AD. Was the Barqouq Castle in Khan Younis Hamas? Why was it targeted?
Also from the Flash Update from a few days ago:
So many dead Palestinians. The average, almost consistently over the last couple of months, have been 100 Palestinians a day, Its almost as if they are working to a quota. On the day that the IDF again hit their quota, no IDF soldiers were killed.
So we’ve got the numbers. This was Flash Update #135. We have 135 updates you can read through. We have historical, documentary evidence of how many Palestinians are dying, and where they have died. And if you want to dig even deeper, you would even be able to track down the names and the ages of all of those who have died as well.
The claim that “Hamas is deliberately using civilian infrastructure to operate from” is a testable one. I think the evidence overwhelming shows that Israel are not targeting Hamas. They are not trying to rescue the hostages. So it’s over to you to back up this claim. How many Hamas soldiers were killed over the last few days?
The thing is, given that the entire Gaza Strip is about half the size of Philadelphia, there isn’t really anything there but civilian infrastructure.
Of course I’m not in any way defending or excusing Hamas attacks on civilians. But this “it’s a war” rhetoric is another example of the weirdly ambiguous “Schrödinger’s nation” status often assigned to Palestinians by people trying to defend or excuse Israeli actions.
To wit, when it’s a question of Israel claiming a right to control Palestinian territory and restrict Palestinian civil rights, then Palestinians are assumed to be not a nation and not entitled to exercise sovereignty over their territory. But when it’s a question of Israel claiming a right to drop bombs on Gazans, then suddenly the adversary is implied to be a full-fledged enemy nation with whom Israel is officially at war.
As long as Hamas has hostaqes and leaders in Qutar speaking on their behalf then my answer stands. Your attempt at some kind of gotcha is bullshit and you know it. Using your logic I’ll just ask you to count up the Palestinians who aren’t Hamas and have you subtract it from the total. When you come up with a number and an address you can forward it to Israel so they can free the hostages and end the war.
I fail to see a connection between Hamas using civilian infrastructure and the IOF sniping at white-flag protected grannies and five-year-olds. This is not in any way, shape or form the “collateral damage” you’re excusing it as, this is targeted assassination of those specific targets.
…so is your answer everyone that has been killed by IDF snipers or bombing in Gaza is Hamas?
It has nothing to do with my logic. It has everything to do with proportionality, what is and isn’t a legitimate target under humanitarian law. If the IDF are targeting Hamas soldiers and Hamas targets then we should be able to verify that.
If instead they are indiscriminately bombing apartment complexes and Mosques, sniping civilians just trying to get home, burning down houses, razing fields, using controlled demolitions to blow up universities, using bulldozers to knock over hospitals, then these are all war crimes on an industrial scale.
That’s the difference here. Which is it? Do these numbers actually exist? Can we quantify how many civilians have been killed for every Hamas soldier taken out? Because if those numbers don’t exist: if Israel don’t have a clue who they are killing, then you can’t claim “Hamas soldiers deliberately using civilian infrastructure” to explain the scale of death and destruction we have seen.
1 in every 100 children in Gaza have been killed as of the 1st of January. Here are their names along with their ages.
How many of them were Hamas?
It really shouldn’t be a difficult question. Either the IDF are targeting Hamas in civilian infrastructure: which means they had actionable intelligence that there were Hamas operatives at the target, and after-action reports that will tell them who they managed to kill…or they don’t.
I don’t think they actually have these reports. Because every single time Israeli spokespeople talk about how many Hamas they have killed, they always use a ratio based on the Hamas Ministry of Health numbers. Because they aren’t actually tracking the numbers. Because they don’t care.
So let’s start with the children. Do you concede that the children who have been killed by the bombing and by snipers are not Hamas? Because I’m happy to subtract them from the list. Do you accept that so far in this “war”, Israel have killed over 12,000 children? And if not that number, how many do you think that it is, and what is your source?