…its less about my point and more about your point. And you don’t appear to have a point here. If you want to argue the fire-bombing was a genocide? Sure. Want to argue that it wasn’t? Fine with me. But it isn’t relevant to the discussion either way.
I’ve cited the figure in this thread, and it isn’t hard to look it up.
Strawman.
You are entitled to your opinion, as am I. My opinion is backed up by substantial evidence that you haven’t even attempted to rebut. And your opinion is backed up with nothing at all.
The interim ruling counts. The interim ruling matters.
LOL.
Sure.
So make your case here. Was the Tokyo fire-bombing a genocide or not? Present your arguments.
On second thought, this really isn’t on topic. I’ll no longer engage you on this here. Feel free to start this in another thread, and I’ll consider debating it there.
And other wars!
No, simply saying “it isn’t” isn’t a rebuttal.
As I’ve already said, Page 59, Section D, titled “. Expressions of Genocidal Intent against the Palestinian People by Israeli State Officials and Others.”
Its normally the hardest element to prove in a genocide. But they literally just Tweeted it out. And they continue to Tweet it out.
They ruled that it’s plausible Israel is committing a genocide and have ordered them to stop.
I do have a point, you’re just not listening, mass destruction doesn’t equate to genocide no matter how much you think it is the same thing, the Israelis and US governments never had/have a plan to commit mass genocide against the Palestinians/Japanese. You seem to be of the opinion that if I refute the genocide claim, that I refute the suffering of the population of Gaza in its entirety, I don’t.
So you are in agreement its not a genocide?
It’s not an opinion, it’s fact, at present, there is jo evidence of Israels government wanting to commit genocide against the Palestinian people, evidence of which is demonstrated by the consistent rise in the Palestinians population since 1948.
If it counts then they’ve not said Israel committed Genocide like you’re implying, only advising Israel to avoid doing it.
Burden of proof is on your side to make the case, so far the ICJ hasn’t stated they did.
I already stated the Tokyo bombing wasn’t genocide by using it as a counter to your claim Israel was committing genocide.
You’re not going to engage because it takes five minutes to poke holes in your Israel is committing Genocide hysteria, by contrasting it with an actual Genocide which took place in the Middle East against Armenians and which was well documented with intent in line with Dolus Specialis.
See above
Everything else I’ve said about your genocide claims is a rebuttal
Where is the expression of intent linked to government employees carrying out the orders to perpetrate this genocide? Or is it just some random people in the Israeli government who have no power to carry anything they say out?
So we all agree that Israel is engaging in the mass slaughter of innocent civilians, destroying essential infrastructure, allowing famine and disease to spread as methods of collective punishment, and actively killing people who are attempting to provide food or medical care to their victims, many of them are children.
But apparently the crucially important thing we need to be arguing about here is…is it Genocide™?
(Personally, my current position is not to use that word, but also not to derail conversations by objecting when others choose to use it)
Great tweet on what Israel should have done after Oct 7th:
"So what other options did Israel have after October 7th? There are many possible answers, which were clear from the beginning. You may disagree with some or all of this, but six months later, and after all of the most recent disasters, I believe even more strongly that this was the way to go:
First, stop and think. Even for just a few days. Don’t react exactly as always, and exactly as Hamas expected and wanted. Don’t give them what they want. It’s Gaza. Hamas is not leaving. A response can wait a few days.
Take a moment to mourn, grieve, sit shiva together (after securing the border, of course).
Make the hostages the #1 priority and get them back whatever it takes. A victory for Hamas? Of course. But life is more important.
Use that pause to focus the world’s attention—for more than one day—on what Hamas did. Shame and isolate them the way ISIS was shamed and isolated.
Make it clear that in whatever war or campaign comes next, protecting civilians will be a priority, and act that way. (Don’t block all aid, use only precision weapons, don’t bomb civilian infrastructure, warn the soldiers that any shenanigans will be punished, etc.)
Separate the Palestinian people from Hamas’s leadership by reiterating a commitment to a real two-state solution (yes, I know (!) that Netanyahu and this government would never do that. I am simply stating what would have been the right thing to do).
Go after Hamas methodically, surgically, financially, with much of the world behind us. (For example, using drones and helicopters, no armed man walks the streets of Gaza again until all hostages are released.)
Clamp down on the Jewish extremists in the West Bank. Make it clear that you will not allow them to open another front. Arrest as many as necessary.
Explain to the Israeli public, again and again, exactly why you are doing all this. Why there is great strength in restraint. That the goal is to prevent this from ever happening again. But that this will take heart and brains, and not just muscle.
Speak softly. No need to make big empty threats when you have so much power.
This would have been a start. One can wish. And to all those, especially non-Israelis, who will call me “naive,” are you happy so far with the results of your “only way?” Come on."
I’ve gone from supporting Israel after October 7th, to figuring that civilian caualties were inevitable, but after seeing the apparently deliberate targeting of hospitals and relief workers I can’t back them any more. They need to get food and medicine to the Gazans, or at least get out of the way of people who do.
I also am not interested in the appropriate legal term for the crap they are doing.
I don’t know how much is documented, but that is something that allegedly came up in 1973, and both Moscow and Washington made it very crystal clear it was not a “real” option (nuclear weapons never are), however the idea was that such talk would impress upon the international community the urgency of brokering a ceasefire.
What plan? The IDF failed to protect Israel on Oct 7th, and is utterly failing in their stated military goals (destroy Hamas and get the hostages back). I’m sure parts of the government and IDF saw this as a chance to take over Gaza/kill Gazans, but that’s not a plan. You don’t need a plan to kill a bunch of civilians and cause chaos.
What we’re seeing is incompetent flailing from malevolent and incompetent actors.
Israel did not plan the Hamas attack. That’s an act of war on the part of Hamas just as the hostage taking is. Long before this they created a tunnel system in which to wage war and use civilian infrastructure as a field of battle. This war was fronted by Iran who previously used children as mine sweepers with the promise of martyrdom.