Iraq also had the fourth largest army in the world; Hamas does not.
I really don’t think that’s true. Again, Gaza is a narrow strip of land. Iraq is a huge country with incredibly rough terrain in places. Iraq is half a world away, and aside from spreading an ideology that Americans only halfheartedly believe in anyways, they had motivation for going to Iraq. I can’t really think of anything that would make Iraq easier to occupy than Gaza.
I think you’ve got a very skewed idea of what the Israeli government says and does. I don’t think it’s your fault; the reporting on this conflict has been atrocious. See: the supposed 500 people who died when a PIJ rocket hit a parking lot. Or the claims that vehicles were “buried”.
In early 2024, I came across a description of exactly how I was feeling, from author Michael Crichton. What’s funny is, he used Palestine as an example of an issue he knew nothing about, while for me, it’s exactly the other way around:
Well, one reason I am confident that it is not in fact “physically impossible” for Israel to hold Gaza is that Israel did in fact occupy Gaza from 1967 until 2005.
Sharon thought that the Palestinians were ready to build their own state instead of fighting us for ours.
This time we shouldn’t withdraw until Gaza is under the firm control of an administration that isn’t terroristic itself, nor that pays terrorists out with a “Pay for Slay” scheme. And also, if we leave and a group like Hamas takes over two years later, we will hopefully have the foresight to go back in immediately, not to wait two decades for Hamas’ potential successor to fester.
Me too. The land is under the control of Hamas in Gaza (well, except the parts Israel has already occupied) and the joint control of the PA and Israel in the West Bank.
I’ll note that this presumes complete acceptance of the accuracy of the IDF report, and the inaccuracy of independent reporting, neither of which I’m inclined to just accept.
By “independent reporting” do you mean “reporters saying what Hamas officials told them”? Because I didn’t see any “independent reporting” other than reporters saying what other people said. And a journalist quoting a Hamas aligned doctor is no more “independent” than a journalist quoting the IDF.
Again, let’s be serious. The immediate issues are access to resources and trade. Israel has no long term plan for a Gazan economy. I’m sure there are fine minds at Israeli universities that could propose viable plans to solve these problems. The US did it in Japan and Germany against forces much greater than Hamas.
You told me some time ago that there are interests on both sides that prevent this.
If only truly independent journalists could actually safely travel that area and report. AFAICT the IDF has been less than welcoming to independent reporters.
I agree - let’s be serious. There’s only one side in this conflict that has ever agreed to a two state solution. The other side either rejects it outright, or demands a “right of return” poison pill.
Until both sides accept a real two state solution, war will continue in the region. And one side has shown, over and over, a clear willingness to do so; the other has not.
That’s too big a leap. It’s not even relevant to the current situation. Israel is not offering anything meaningful.
Israel, with the UN, could establish a Gazan Constituent Government funded by such cash flow that still exists. This provides an entity that Gazans can support and from which they can benefit. If Israel were to deal with the Constituent Government as an equal it would lead to positive steps being taken.
Of course I do not know the actual form this would take, but recovery has to be something along these lines. Unfortunately it looks like the Israeli goal is still colonization.
What do you think those two state proposals involved? Israel dipping out and a new state immediately being established?
Nahh, they all had terms with provisional governments that are basically what you describe.
The Palestinians have rejected these offers (or at least, their leaders have; they never actually asked the people or anything). They’d rather keep fighting for the whole thing, river to the sea.
Maybe after this war, they’ll change their mind.
I don’t know how permanent peace is possible until they do, and put into powers leaders who pursue that goal.
Palestinian leaders in control of funds. Today, Israel and Egypt control all funds flowing into Gaza, so they are currently the Gaza Provisional Government. It is within their power to form a functioning Constituent Government that Gazans would support.
Peace is possible when it benefits the Palestinians.
Oh yeah, a Palestinian State would be an independent economic and political entity, not a reservation cobbled together from scraps left over after confiscation of primary land and other resources. Israel has never offered a viable statehood solution.
Not even close. Smuggling occurs daily. Not to mention Hamas routinely puts the arm on the Gazans, doing stuff like stealing aid food and selling it to their own people.