There are dozens of programs with deep experience in this field, many of whom were trying to deliver aid in Gaza. There’s no reason to reinvent the wheel.
I would, too. I avoid snuff videos, whenever possible. I’m happy someone is willing to watch that footage and testify to it’s contents. That doesn’t have to be me.
I am quite certain that civilians were brutally murdered and people were raped. I don’t want to watch the rapes, either. Yes, it was horrible and evil. So is the destruction wreaked upon civilians in Gaza since then.
On the contrary: the way that Hamas controls aid distribution and operates out of hospitals and UNRWA sites is a HUGE REASON to reinvent the wheel.
You didn’t try to play hero and Livestream your blockade running attempt into an active warzone, so I don’t see any reason why you should be forced to.
A large number of food aid organizations work in a huge number of locations around the world. Most of them are completely unrelated to Hamas. No, there really isn’t any reason to reinvent the wheel.
I don’t know. Israel has killed too many journalists for any decent investigative reporting. I also don’t know what level of “control” Hamas had, because i frankly don’t trust anything from the IDF.
And that’s the crux of it. Sure, if you want to conclude that everything the IDF says is a lie offhand, then you and I will come to irreconcilably different conclusions, and there’s not much point debating them.
…Hamas didn’t and doesn’t control aid distribution.
Hamas are not operating out of hospitals and UNRWA sites.
People SHOULD be allowed to break illegal blockades that are preventing aid from getting through to millions of people.
And if those people happen to get detained by those enforcing that illegal blockade, It’s just plain fucking weird to decide to show them snuff footage.
They all cooperated with the government of Gaza: as they should. But they all also operated in a way free from “Hamas control.”
You need to be reminded that Jake Wood resigned from GHF BECAUSE he couldn’t be guaranteed the ability to run the Foundation independently. Israel would be calling the shots.
As always: every accusation is a confession. The problem wasn’t Hamas controlling the aid. The problem NOW is Israel controlling the aid. Deciding that only a limited amount of food is all that the Palestinians in Gaza need. That shelter, tents, water, fuel, medical supplies, female hygiene products: aren’t needed.
And thats exactly why the GHF and Israel should NOT be in control of aid distribution. Because these are the things that distribution networks are already set up for, which are waiting in trucks just outside the border.
My a priori is that both IDF and Hamas are apt to lie to support their positions, yes. And if you trust everything IDF says, then i agree, we will come to irreconcilably different conclusions.
As much good as it would do your cause if Hamas killed Greta and blamed it on Israel, I don’t think Israel should allow that to happen.
Good. Israel should call the shots, because for the last two decades since it pulled out of Gaza, it has not called the shots and that has been an unmitigated disaster.
Israel should continue to call the shots until a Palestinian government that’s not dedicated to the destruction of Israel can form, or until someone else in the world decides to step up and manage the interim government.
Is that what I said? It certainly isn’t, but what I’ve said seems to matter very little to the counterarguments I receive in this thread.
I consider Hamas and the IDF to have comparable credibility. And i trust random doctors who have gone home from a stint with MSF more than either of them. So yes, we are going to come to different conclusions.
Yeah, that’s pretty flabbergasting to me. You find the standing army of a democratic nation with a free press that hosts tons of its own criticism to be equally credible to Hamas, which has been routinely executing Palestinians who protest or speak up against them.
It’s not just flabbergasting, if I’m being honest… That’s almost fascinating to me. You have to hand it to Hamas, their propaganda arm is extremely effective.
And the “alleged server farm” hasn’t been independently verified.
From UNRWA:
And if you can back up your claims about hospitals: please feel free to share.
It is MUCH more likely Greta would have been killed either by the IDF or one of its proxy gangs.
No they absolutely should not. Because they are not capable of doing so.
For example: how many tents have been allowed into Gaza last month? Because at the start of the year the World Food Programme said there were 2 million people homeless in Gaza. Cite.
Why is Israel not allowing in tents?
Why is Israel not letting in feminine hygiene products?
Naw, i don’t trust Hamas. What astonishes me is that you trust the IDF, a military force that’s waging an ugly war, to tell you the truth. The US military lied all through the Vietnam war. Is Israel now a place whose military is more trustworthy than the US military was then?
I didn’t say you did - I said you find them equally credible to Hamas (that is, not credible).
Every war is ugly, doubly so one that’s fought in an urban environment like Gaza and triply so against an asymmetric opponent like Hamas. That’s why until Oct 7 I didn’t support a ground war in Gaza, during any of the prior conflicts with Israel since the withdrawal in 2005 - because it was always clear to me that a war in Gaza was going to be would be precisely this bloody. There are posts from 2023 where I say very much the same thing.
I would ask if you don’t trust any military that’s engaged in war, but based on your mention of America, I’d guess that’s pretty much precisely the case?
Well, yes, because of the relationship between government and press and the way it has changed across the world since the Vietnam war era. The US army during Iraq/Afghanistan was more trustworthy (or at least, more accountable) than the US army in Vietnam, too.
Would that work in reverse? If someone sat you down and showed you a bunch of photos and videos of dead Palestinian kids, with parts of their heads blown off, or missing limbs, or pulped by rubble, is there a point where that would be enough to make you rethink the war in Gaza?
If you refused to go along with such an obviously emotionally manipulative tactic, would that be evidence that you don’t have faith in your conviction that the war in Gaza is necessary?
I don’t know if you haven’t noticed, but social media is chock full of that sort of thing. You think I haven’t seen it? There’s a poster in this very thread (or maybe in the Pit equivalent) who routinely makes wall of text posts with links to multiple examples of exactly what you describe. It’s like, the single most common rhetorical strategy of the Pro Palestinian side on social media.