I don’t think CNN is lying in the body of the article; the body of the article just doesn’t actually support the claim the headline is making.
Same exact thing that happened with the al-Halil “hospital” “bombing”. Outlets like CNN ran headlines that declared, “ISRAEL KILLS 500 AT HOSPITAL THAT WAS DESTROYED BY AIRSTRIKE”. But the body of the article, even initially, did correctly state that all this info was coming from Hamas, and that there was no actual evidence it had happened.
So when it turned out that actually a PIJ rocket misfired and hit a parking lot, it wasn’t like CNN had actively lied; they just took Hamas at their word and crafted a far too credulous headline.
Al-Jazeera is a propaganda outlet - go read their exact same articles in English and Arabic on issues like LGBT rights and you’ll see exactly what I mean. Al-Jazeera will say exactly what they think they need to to get their desired results.
Did she? I don’t really see any evidence of that. I googled her alongside a bunch of names from the IDW, and it looks like she last went on Rogan about 4 years ago when they got in a huge fight over Tulsi Gabbard (who Weiss detests - point for her!) that Rogan fans are still butthurt over to this day. And more recently, she debated against Ben Shapiro right before the election, arguing that Kamala should be elected.
More empty assertions? I tried looking up articles related to these issues on TFP; I won’t link them here as it would be a hijack, but while I disagree with some of the positions presented, I don’t think it would be fair to call any of the articles I came across “hit pieces”. And when it comes to “men’s rights”, the article I came across is by Bari herself, 3 days old, and comes across as “the far right appeals to young boys’ worst impulses, we need to reach them with a better message” - hardly some Men’s Rights Activist.
The IDF stopped a small boat carrying a small amount of aid (and no weapons at all, at least none reported in the media) traveling to Gaza.
I get that this was a boat with celebrities essentially provoking just this type of confrontation… why did the IDF give it to them? Why not just allow this small bit of aid through?
I still would like to know which sources you trust.
I tried to read up on the event and the wikipedia article carefully doesn’t point finger, but goes through a lot of different sources. You’re quite correct that the narrative changed after the initial reporting. There is, however, still many things that are unclear, at least judging by the back and forth between different media sources, different (for a lack of a better word) experts contradicting each other in the same source, government officials grandstanding in many countries, and politicians from all over the spectrum weighing in.
It’s obviously a very controversial topic, almost always tainted/tinted by the bias of whoever makes a statement.
Note that I’m not saying that your take on it is wrong. I see many sources agreeing with you. But I do wonder about the scare quotes around hospital. It was founded in 1882 and is managed by the Episcopal Church in Jerusalem, i.e. an Anglican church. How is that not a hospital?
It’s a hospital. The scare quotes are because the hospital was not in fact hit at all. The rocket landed in the parking lot.
I trust sources that show their work to a sufficient level that a layperson can follow along and check it. So with the al-Halil Parking Lot Rocket Strike, I trust OSINT publications that cite every claim they make, show their work, and address other narratives, debunking them.
What does that mean in the immediate aftermath of an event? Typically that there really isn’t source you should rely on, aside from maybe sources that are exceedingly careful with the claims that they make. And since careful, nuanced claims don’t make headlines that sell papers… Well. Let’s just say I don’t think that journalism as a whole is in a very good place at the moment.
Which is why my reaction to this latest reported shooting was what it was: I stated the facts as I understood them to be (the IDF isn’t at the GHF site at all since they hire Palestinians to provide security; the GHF released footage from the time of the alleged incident that shows no gunshots were happening at the site at that time) and waited for more info.
Meanwhile, in other news: The “Celebrity Cruise” headed for Gaza has been diverted with no injuries. I’m glad we didn’t have a repeat of the incident from like a decade ago, where people on a ship tried to come at the troops with clubs and axes.
In fact, this seems like the best of all possible outcomes: the ship is diverted, the celebrities on board are detained and will be watching some Oct 7 footage so they can learn exactly what it is they’re so supportive of, and the best part: all of the aid they brought will be getting distributed through normal means to the people of Gaza!
Well, they brought like, three bags of flour, because this was a publicity stunt, not an aid mission. But those three bags of flour are going to Gaza!
They’re being sent in by the GHF. As noted, there are people invested in the Hamas-UNRWA partnership that is the status quo, and they’re going to paint the GHF in as negative a light as possible, but everything I’ve seen so far shows it has been very effective.
It’s certainly a better idea than Greta and company running around an active war zone handing out food. I’m sure they cleared it with Hamas, but if PIJ or some other group decides they can score some extra leverage by holding them hostage, who’s going to rescue them or negotiate for their release? Hamas?
Or they could kill them and blame it on Israel. Either kill them themselves or do something like fire a rocket from near their position and hope they die in the return fire. It’ll be a huge coup for their cause.
Did you ever read Left Behind? It features a woman who works at an abortion clinic who is really upset that she can’t do abortions. (People have stopped getting pregnant.) That’s what you sound like.
Yes, i imagine there are Palestinians who work for the local aid organizations who are invested in what they do. But American doctors who work for Doctors without Borders say the same thing. Those people can find other work. I find them more trustworthy than most of the other people reporting at the moment.
Absolutely! Those aren’t the people upset about Gazans actually getting aid. The people upset about that are the corrupt ones, who’ve allowed UNRWA to coordinate with Hamas for decades, enriching both.
They’re not upset that they don’t get to give aid anymore or whatever you misinterpreted me to be saying. They’re upset because they were corrupt, and now they can’t continue to engage in corruption.
…this thread is about Gaza. I didn’t think you wanted a novel. I addressed your concerns. If you want an example of why we shouldn’t trust the Free Press’s editorial standards, I’ll point you to this article:
And here are a series of articles that point out the serious ethical and editorial lapses in that article.
Just like the video you posted, it was alarmist propaganda, and any reputable news agency wouldn’t have published it.
This more accurately describes the so-called “Gaza Humanitarian Foundation.” They may only open for twenty minutes, provide no water, no fuel, but plenty of dry pasta." And somehow the IDF keep killing people trying to get food from them. More than 130 people have been killed so far, and over 700 wounded. Killings daily. 14 killed today. They are a fucking joke.
When I first saw the former Executive director Jake Wood on TV he surprised me, because he wasn’t full of the same rhetoric and bluster that you come to expect: he actually sounded like a good, reasonable guy who wanted to make a difference.
So it didn’t come as a surprise that he resigned shortly before the GHF began operations. As has already been pointed out in the thread, he said:
"“However, it is clear that it is not possible to implement this plan while also strictly adhering to the humanitarian principles of humanity, neutrality, impartiality, and independence, which I will not abandon”
“I urge Israel to significantly expand the provision of aid into Gaza through all mechanisms, and I urge all stakeholders to continue to explore innovative new methods for the delivery of aid, without delay, diversion, or discrimination,”
The GHF are being painted in a negative light because they deserve it. They aren’t independent. They only have five distribution compounds, not near population centres, nothing in the north. The food they are providing mostly needs water, needs fuel, to cook, and both of those things are still under blockade.
There is nothing effective about what the GHF have done at all. You keep talking (without evidence) about wide-spread UNRWA corruption: but they aren’t the only NGO on the ground. The World Food Programme. The World Food Kitchen. ZOA International. HEAL Palestine. All on the ground, all ready to go. All, unlike the GHF, with experience. Many with the equipment to actually cook the food.
GHF are doing nothing about shelter, about water, about the estimated thousands who can’t make it to the distribution points. They are a joke. They serve two purposes: to get international pressure off their backs. Secondly: control where the population lives.
And they can do nothing about this:
The siege isn’t just stopping food.
The IDF don’t need any help targeting innocent civilians.
They are upset that the aid agencies on the ground aren’t being allowed to do their jobs, that food, water, fuel, medical supplies are sitting in trucks waiting not being allowed in.
They are watching their friends and families dying in the most horrible and obscene ways. Today 3 more paramedics were targeted and assassinated along with a journalist. They’ve now put a target on Civil Defence spokesman Mahmoud Basal. They are systematically targeting healthcare workers, scholars, journalists, civil servants.
Multiple articles agree they are delivering inadequate amounts of food, from limited distribution points, and handing it out on a first-come first-served basis. That’s a set-up that’s almost guaranteed to lead to disorder as desperate people compete to access the available supplies. It also fails to reach the most vulnerable entirely. Trying to police a volatile crowd is far less effective than creating a fairer and more orderly delivery method.
Inability to admit one’s own side can make mistakes, or may contain bad actors, is a sure sign of bias.
A bullet from a military rifle can travel three times that far.
Wow. That is genuinely the only time I’ve heard MSF accused of that sort of thing. Sure, like any other organization composed of people there have been some bad apples and problems but honestly, unless you can come up with PROOF that MSF is doing such a thing I’m going to say you are either victim of misinformation or just wrong.
Of course, there are people who get upset that MSF will treat ALL injured arising form a conflict, people from both sides of a war and accuse them of “helping the enemy” because they take care of all patients without regard to which side they’re on. Are you one of those people?
Given the “fog of war”, the prevention of objection reporting, the slaughter of journalists, loads of propaganda, and strong bias on both sides of this conflict leaping to “lies”, that is “delibrate falsehood” is a stretch in many instances.
Also - I can’t read Hebrew. Neither can most others here. While it is possible to get sites translated these days it’s more work for the people you’re trying to convince of the rightness of your position. Lots of folks just won’t bother. You really can’t find English versions of your sources?
And the horror of October 7th has been exceeded many times over in Gaza by now.
MSF has been opposed to Israel’s actions in Gaza from very early on. And Babale has been accusing them of lying ever since.
Given that Israel has been killing so many journalists in the region, i, personally, find MSF one of the more credible data sources. I mean, there’s the IDF, there are various Hamas -linked entities. And there are these international aid organizations with boots on the ground, some of whom cycle back home. It’s not just MSF, it’s also the groups that try to distribute food and similar aid that Babale says are all lying.
This is one of the things I object to - the notion that feeding starving people who are caught in the crossfire is somehow being “supportive” of Oct 7. No, it’s being a fucking decent human being to feed starving people.
If someone maintains that providing food to people who have no means to feed themselves is wrong and supportive of terrorism then I’d say that person is “supportive” of genocide. Because that’s what it’s called when you deliberately starve a population and prevent help getting to them.
And before @Babale comes back with how corrupt absolutely every single aid agency is and has forever been - no system it going to be perfect. If you insist on perfection people will die who could have otherwise been saved. Don’t let perfection get in the way of the good saving lives.
I daresay I can read Hebrew, and the only sources (“sources”?) mentioned in that link are the Gazan Health Ministry and the IDF. If you do not want to take what they say at face value and are looking for independent accounts of what happened, then that link says… nothing at all.
PS delivering food and other aid to people caught in a war zone is not easy. I know of a case in Ukraine where they had to found a brand-new NGO from scratch, with all that entails, and people personally vouched for because all the aid people were working hard to send was being stolen and sold on the black market.
If you (running your NGO) do not personally know the people in Gaza who will be distributing the food, that they are trustworthy and competent, then you can kiss it good-bye. Also with people as starving/desperate as they are this is getting beyond run-of-the mill disaster relief and you need people with actual relevant experience.
It’s a brand new initiative that just started. I would agree that it needs to be ramped up significantly, and I hope that’s exactly what happens.
Nope! I explained pretty precisely what my issue is, I thought.
MSF’s actual work treating people is one thing. Their commentary on aid distribution, and on the necessity of cooperating with known sponsors of terrorism like UNRWA, is quite another.
Speaking of treating ALL injuries regardless of whose side they’re on, guess who removed Sinwar’s brain tumor? This is something Israel routinely does, as it should, because it’s the right thing to do.
No, but I think they’re probably pretty ignorant of what has happened.
For example, I’ve seen celebrities and far left activists like Hasan Piker make the leap from “that one specific story started by a foreign reporter about 40 beheaded babies is false, therefore we can conclude that no babies were killed” or denying that any rapes happened on October 7th.
Just the other day, one of these activists was on Sam Seder’s show, The Majority Report, talking about how Oct 7th was a major strategic victory and wonderful way to set Israel’s occupation back, and he only talked about the fighting that happened at military bases, totally ignoring the massacre of civilians.
When that’s the media environment that people like Greta are exposed to, I think that they have a very twisted view of what happened on October 7th.
Which they won’t be correcting, because apparently Greta refuses to watch the videos. I guess she doesn’t have faith in her own conviction on this issue…
That is a ridiculous notion! Who holds it?
I’m sorry, who do you think maintains that providing food to people who have no means to feed themselves is wrong and supportive of terrorism? That’s certainly not my position.
My position is that the specific organization UNRWA is deeply intertwined with Hamas, and the specific way that they go about distributing aid allows Hamas to entrench its control over the Strip, and that this needs to change.
I agree, that’s why I support GHF, despite it’s flaws and room to grow.
