Discussion thread for the Hamas Attacks Israel thread, October 2023

Some group that doesn’t shoot unarmed civilians who pose no threat. Reporting demonstrates that that rules out mercenaries and the IDF, so Israel should be asking an international organization to take over.

So, you don’t want someone paid to enforce marshal law in a war zone which includes soldiers. Not going to happen as long as Hamas exists as a guerilla force among civilians.

Hamas uses children in their war efforts so there is no way of knowing who is and is not armed. This is an army funded by a religious government who sent children into mine fields during wars.

Then, clearly, the Israeli army should shoot children.
Wouldn’t you agree Magiver?

Both the mercenaries and IDF members have reported to journalists that they are shooting very clearly unarmed civilians who pose no threat at all. Not secret Hamas, but obviously unarmed civilians who pose no threat. It’s clear that this IDF and this Israeli government are incapable of safely distributing aid. So they should ask an outside organization to do it.

Not everything is Hamas’s fault. Israel and the IDF are making choices too. Sometimes they’re making wrong ones that should be criticized.

I would propose using airdropped monkeys on motorcycles to distribute food, water and hand sanitizer.

How do you know someone is unarmed?

This is ridiculous. Maybe you’re fine with the fact that IDF members and mercenaries have decided, because of their own consciences, to tell journalists that their colleagues are doing terrible things up to and including murdering unarmed civilians. I’m not. If you’re okay with killing unarmed civilians for no reason at all, then that’s on you.

You’re assuming it happened.

Sure, maybe it was all made up. I guess we should just trust that everything is perfect as long as the Israeli government and Trump tell us so, right?

You’ve made statements as if they’re fact and then gone on a rant based on it which I will now leave you to it.

It’s a fact that IDF members and mercenaries have reported to journalists that their colleagues are doing terrible things, up to and including murdering unarmed civilians that pose no threat.

…there is no evidence that Hamas were preventing civilians from getting supplies. The humanitarian agencies on the ground had established supply corridors, security, and decades of experience of distributing not just food (which is the only thing the GHF provides) , but all aid, including water, fuel, medical supplies, tents, shelter, baby formula and feminine hygiene products.

The biggest impediment to getting aid to Palestinian civilians has been the IDF. Planned aid movements have consistently been denied by the IDF. And many that have been approved have been redirected through areas being controlled by Isreali-backed gangs.

It is this bad right now:

This isn’t caused by Hamas.

It has been caused because Israel isn’t allowing fuel into the strip.

It requires giving back control of the aid response to organisations like UNRWA, who have been subject of an organised disinformation campaign. They have the capacity, the networks, the systems, the expertise and the experience to do the job. The IDF just needs to get out of their way.

“Martial law” isn’t the right word to be using here. Occupation is more appropriate.

And the occupying power has obligations under international humanitarian law which Israel are not meeting.

Cite please. Specific to this “war.”

The Gaza Humanitarian Foundation don’t have a system that ensures people seeking aid are “not armed.” And one would think that every supporter of the 2nd amendment would support the right of Palestinians to be armed in order to protect themselves.

The more important question here is…what are the rules of engagement that armed mercenaries working for the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation are following? And does it allow them to open fire on a crowd if they merely suspect someone is armed?

There should be transparency here, don’t you agree?

We know that hundreds of Palestinians have been killed trying to access aid, and that thousands have been wounded. There are international doctors working at hospitals that daily have to scale up due to mass-casualty events. They are reporting the carnage. The dead bodies exist.

And the incidents are being independently verified by Armed Conflict Location and Event Data. Their methodology can be found here:

Can you clarify exactly what it is that you doubt?

War is the correct term. Until Hamas surrenders and returns the hostages they are at war.

…martial law isn’t the correct term in context. Occupation is more appropriate.

And Hamas had both agreed to release all of the hostages and step down in power. That should be enough to at the very least end hostilities.

If they’re at war, then the IDF has obligations under the rule of law. That they’re not meeting. In the slightest.

Are you saying that it’s perfectly fine that IDF members and mercs they hired are shooting unarmed civilians who pose no threat because it’s a war?

Another IDF member comes forward and says killing unarmed civilians who pose no threat at all is happening frequently:

Israeli defense minister Israel Katz (a Likud member) has announced a plan to move the entire population of Gaza into a concentration camp. Under the plan they would not be allowed to leave and reenter the rest of Gaza, but based on what Netanyahu has said, the plan appears to be that they would be allowed to “voluntarily” emigrate out of the country entirely.

Another day, another massacre.

Israel has no need to build death camps, Gaza is a death camp already.

Three cheers for openly stated ethnic cleansing!