…because it wasn’t happening.
…from reports on that day, 73 Palestinians were killed by the IDF on Wednesday October the 1st. Was that what you meant? Or can you be a bit more specific?
Hamas fired a bunch of unguided rockets into the city of Ashdod, aiming to kill as many civilians as they could.
…I condemn unequivocally the targeting of civilians by Hamas and the firing of unguided rockets into the city of Ashod. They are terrorist actions by a terrorist organisation.
On the same day in Gaza:
- On 1 October, at about 3:45, seven Palestinians were reportedly killed when a residential building was hit in Ad Daraj, in central Gaza city.
- On 1 October, at about 11:30, five Palestinians were reportedly killed and others injured when a water truck was struck in western Gaza city.
On the day before that:
- On 30 September, at about 4:30, seven Palestinians, including a woman and her six children, were killed and others injured when a residential building was hit in western Deir al Balah.
- On 30 September, at about 10:00, 17 Palestinians, including at least four boys, were reportedly killed and 33 others were injured when fire was opened towards people seeking food near the militarized supply site in Wadi Gaza.
And a few days before that:
- On 27 September, at about 17:20, at least 17 Palestinians were reportedly killed, including at least two boys and one woman, and dozens of others were injured when a crowded market was hit, near Abu Dala Mall in An Nuseirat Camp, in Deir al Balah.
- On 28 September, at about 1:00, at least 13 Palestinians were reportedly killed when a residential building was hit in southeastern An Nuseirat, in Deir al Balah.
- On 28 September, six Palestinians were reportedly killed when fire was opened toward Palestinians waiting for supply trucks along the Morag route, south of Khan Younis.
- On 29 September, at about 8:50, at least 10 Palestinians were reportedly killed when a strike hit the vicinity of a UN facility sheltering IDPs in An Nasr, in Gaza city.
I condemn all of the killings of civilians by the IDF. Do you condemn them as well? Were any of these killings targeting Hamas?
None of the quotes you posted mention whether the people killed were civilians or combattants, but I find it quite interesting that you apparently assume they are all civilians.
I condemn Hamas for choosing to fight a guerilla war out of a heavily populated urban environment, which means that they cannot be fought without causing civilian casualties.
Moderating:
This is not the pit. That’s a personal attack.
If you feel there’s a relevant post that was supposed to refer to, you should link it. But even if there was such a post, and you did link to it, you should criticize the actual post, and not say things like “this poster always does this…” That’s pit material.
Did i mention this isn’t the pit?
I’m debating whether this should be a warning, if it’s not, it’s really close.
Bosnia in 1995, what a wasteland, amirite?
The Serbs killed 3% of Bosnians. That was also genocide. Or Genocide, if you prefer.
I was too young to know at the time, but my country committed genocide post independence in my lifetime, the Gukurahundi massacres in isiNdebele areas in the newly formed Zimbabwe.
It has never been acknowledged by the ruling chiShona
Genocide, in my opinion.
…I don’t assume they are all civilians.
But here’s the thing: I’ve got zero reason to believe that any of them were militants, nor that Hamas were the targets.
There was a reason why I asked you, “were any of these killings targeting Hamas?”
Because we know who was killed. We know where they were killed, what gender was killed, the ages of the people that were killed.
We don’t know why they were killed.
The only people who have that information is Israel. They’ve killed nearly 70,000 people in Gaza so far. That’s recorded deaths. There are still thousands still buried under the rubble. Many that are missing. Many that have died but never made it to the hospital, never got recorded on the register.
And they stopped getting reliable death figures from the north a few months ago. So the current figures are missing a HUGE chunk of people.
And yet: the best we can get from Israeli sources on how many Hamas they have killed since the start of the war is a ratio based on the “Hamas Ministry of Health” numbers.
So when we look at say, this incident:
- On 30 September, at about 4:30, seven Palestinians, including a woman and her six children, were killed and others injured when a residential building was hit in western Deir al Balah.
Israel obviously have all the details about this. At some point, this location or someone at the location would have been designated a target. Perhaps the algorithm from the latest AI suggested it, and on review it was designated a legitimate target. Or perhaps it was a target of opportunity.
But regardless of how it was decided that these people were legitimate targets: the reality is that someone made that decision.
From the Palestinian side, despite the fact that the healthcare system has been practically destroyed, and that communications fail daily and the system is under an extraordinary amount of pressure, still manages to diligently record who was killed, where they were killed, how they were killed in a manner that most international bodies consider to be broadly accurate (and likely a significant undercount.)
But the question that remains is why they were killed. That isn’t something the Palestinian authorities will be able to answer. They didn’t pull the trigger.
So when you ask if this woman and her six children were “civilians or combatants”, I’d say It’s probably very likely those six children were not combatants. But that’s just based on the fact they were children.
But I can only guess. The only people who know why they were killed are the people who made the decision to kill them.
And of course this is only a snapshot of the killings that day. In total there were 59 recorded killings that day, again, most likely an undercount. As mentioned: seventeen were massacred while trying to get food, with these massacres being a daily occurrence.
How many of them were militants? How many of them were Hamas? That starts with Israel telling us why they were killed in the first place. Then people can start to interrogate those claims.
Because in the past, the only time Israel ever explain why they’ve killed lots of people are when the international media start paying attention to a particular massacre or killing. Sometimes they will start disinformation campaigns, like they did with the “Free Press” (now in charge of CBS, LOL) after the first shootings at the GHF. Or their lies when they murdered those 15 paramedics, or when they murdered Hind Rajab. Or how some of the journalists they’ve killed were also somehow doing double-duty as super-secret-snipers.
And sometimes, like the massacres at Al Shifa, they will release information that is just flat-out-wrong. Photos of alleged militants are used multiple times. They include names of people that were already long dead, or of people that are still alive.
So as it is: unless it’s a high-profile massacre, we just have to guess why hundreds of people are being killed every week. And your guess is as good as mine.
There is an arrest warrant out for Netanyahu for, among other things, “the war crimes of starvation as a method of warfare.” Israel totally blocked almost all food and aid from getting into the strip from March 2025 until May and as a result of this, it pushed much of Gaza into famine.
Do you condemn this?
…and I have less than zero reason to believe that the IDF targeted them for being civilians.
I agree, Israel obviously has that information. What I’m baffled by us your insistence that they have some kind of obligation to release that information. No army in the world operates that way, letting random civilians from around access sensitive intelligence in order to make their own calls on whether they agree with the army’s decision to take an individual strike or not. Not a single one. It’s an absurd standard.
Sorry, you’re claiming that the Palestinian side is recording who they are killing? What?
Or are you comparing apples to rottweilers by comparing how the Hamas Ministry of Health tracks its own casualties to how the IDF tracks casualties on the enemy’s side?
Show me one army on the planet that during wartime gives random civilians from across the world access to Intel and decision making processes.
I’m not so quick to accept Hamas’ side of those stories, but we’ve argued about that plenty already so we don’t need to rehash it.
This is true of literally every military operation ever. Do you think FDR issued an exact explanation of each bombing run and troop movement during WWII? Is Ukraine doing that now? The idea that they should be and if they aren’t they must be hiding something nefarious is absolutely bonkers.
Yes, I condemn this warrant that makes an even bigger mockery of international law as a concept than it already was.
Netanyahu deserves a number of arrest warrants (and even to be in jail), but they have to do with corruption, not genocide.
In other news - the first phase of the ceasefire deal is a go.
https://www.cnn.com/world/live-news/israel-hamas-gaza-ceasefire-agreement-10-09-25
Speaking of which, here’s what Netanyahu will be doing with his newfound free time: going to court 3 times a week for an accelerated trial; the judges want to make up for lost time.
Genuinely might be the biggest threat to the cease fire continuing.
…it’s a matter of credibility.
You agree that they have this information.
Yet when asked how many Hamas they have killed during this “war” the answer is almost always based on a ratio: an educated guess, instead of the numbers and data they almost certainly have.
Israel doesn’t have to release this information. But knowing that they have it, yet instead choose to use a ratio based on the Gaza Ministry of Health figures instead strains credibility. They could release accurate numbers that prove that they aren’t targeting civilians. Instead: they use made-up numbers. Why would they do that?
If a press release is now “letting random civilians from around the world have access to” and “we killed a Hamas general” is now “sensitive intelligence” then the IDF have been leaking sensitive intelligence for a very long time.
This is a common thing for militaries around the world to do.
I’m saying exactly what I said. That we know who is dying, where they are dying, when they died. But they only people who can tell us why they died are the people that killed them.
The IDF.
“In a statement on Sunday, the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) said the strike killed Ramzi Ramadan Abd Ali Saleh, along with Hisham Ayman Atiya Mansour, deputy head of Hamas’s mortar unit, and Nissim Muhammad Suleiman Abu Sabha.”
I’m not asking for “random civilians from across the world access to Intel and decision making processes.”
I’m asking that the IDF do what they always do a massacre large enough to get worldwide attention: tell us who the target was. If the IDF are going to drop a bomb on a residential complex killing seven, including 1 woman and 6 children, it isn’t unreasonable to ask why they dropped that bomb.
Sky News is not Hamas.
Forensic Architecture are not Hamas.
What happened to the paramedics was all captured on camera. What happened to Hind played out in utterly devastating conversations. I’m not even sure what there is to argue about here. Both of these incidents happened: both were atrocities, both undoubtedly warcrimes.
At least 621 Russian civilians have been killed in Ukrainian attacks since Moscow’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine, Russia’s Investigative Committee chief Alexander Bastrykin said Monday.
…
The death toll includes 38 children, he said, adding that 3,217 people have been wounded.
According to Moscow, Ukraine has killed 38 children since the war started.
How many children have been killed by the IDF in Gaza?
At least one Palestinian child has been killed every hour on average by Israeli forces in Gaza over nearly 23 months of war, with the number of children killed now surpassing 20,000, Save the Children said.
https://www.savethechildren.net/news/gaza-20000-children-killed-23-months-war-more-one-child-killed-every-hour
In all the years of war Ukraine has only killed 38 children. In two years, the IDF have killed over 20,000.
But it gets worse.
At least 1,009 of the children killed were under age one, with nearly half (450) of these babies born and killed during the war.
The IDF have killed 400 more children under the age of one than Ukraine has killed civilians in total.
The question here is a matter of scale, and it brings into question the matter of proportionality. Save the Children suggests that “about 2% of Gaza’s child population” have been killed since October the 23rd.
Do I think something “nefarious” is going on here? I certainly do. Which is why Israel has been taken to the International Court of Justice, accused of gen_______.
Much of Gaza is now in famine as a direct result of decisions made by Netanyahu & Co. Hundreds are now dead of starvation. You couldn’t draw a more direct line if you tried.
The full arrest warrant is for:
Allegedly responsible for the war crimes of starvation as a method of warfare and of intentionally directing an attack against the civilian population; and the crimes against humanity of murder, persecution, and other inhumane acts from at least 8 October 2023 until at least 20 May 2024.
It’s not going to stop there.
The world is not going to forget what happened to Gaza. Just because there is a “peace” deal on the table doesn’t mean the persecution of the Palestinian people is over. There will be multiple people in Israeli leadership that deserve to be indicted, along with many in the IDF. When the international press and humanitarian agencies are finally allowed back into Gaza, we will hopefully uncover the full scale of the atrocities that the IDF has committed.
Because what we already know is plenty bad enough. But there is a reason why journalists in Gaza have been targeted for assassinations.
Sometimes it’s rather obvious. When Israel booby trapped pagers, no one asked, “why the hell did they do that?”. There will always be a few “why the hell did they do that” killings in a war. But there are sooooo many in this one. Why the hell did they bomb all the hospitals? Why the hell are they targeting so many journalists? Why the hell are they blocking food and starving the population? Why the hell have they shot so many kids in the head? And all of these are really well documented.
And Israel has given partial answers, and… They just aren’t very credible. That’s why these questions are being asked.
That’s rather obvious: because Hamas was operating from within and below the hospitals. I’ve seen the tunnels and I’ve seen the equipment.
I haven’t seen any evidence that they are targeting journalists. I’ve seen that any rando with a cellphone and a TikTok account is being considered a journalist, and I’ve seen that in guerilla warfare in an urban environment civilians are killed as collateral damage and sometimes those civilians are journalists.
We’ve been over claims of “starvation” numerous times in this and other threads and I’m not really interested in relitegating the issue. I would ask why humanitarian groups cozy up to and entangle themselves with Hamas rather than avoiding even the appearance of impropriety in order to secure their continued privilege to operate in a warzone.
Because if you’re looking at dead bodies who took stray bullets, high lethality injuries like head and body shots are going to be overrepresented compared to graze wounds, for what should be completely obvious reasons.
I mean, there are a bunch of articles referencing the same flawed sources. I would disagree that these claims are “well documented”.
Clearly, we disagree there.
Yup. Starting with those tunnels under the hospital that apparently held a dozen guns and a laptop, something that would no doubt take months to build elsewhere, so it was totally worth destroying a hospital to take that out.
Apparently, we live in different universes.
Here, the photos I saw showed a lot more than that in and of themselves;
And the photos represent what was left in the tunnels after they were abandoned by Hamas once the IDF successfully took the site;
And aside from either of those prior facts, if the enemy is operating out of a location, you have to target them at that location, not where you wish they were. The blame is Hamas’, for weaponizing a hospital in violation of the rules of war. According to the same rules that protect hospitals in the first place, that protection does not apply if a side uses the location of the hospital to harm the opposing side, as long as the attacked side gives prior warning and the attacks continue regardless.
https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/ihl-treaties/gciv-1949/article-19/commentary/1958
The idea that what we’ve seen from these hospitals demonstrates behavior aligned with “steadfastly refraining from any interference, direct or indirect, in military operations” is completely unfathomable to me.
As the commentary linked above so eloquently states, Hamas’ behavior is to be condemned not only for its treacherous nature, but also because the life and security of the patients in a hospital may be very seriously affected by its consequences.