So in your opinion, anything goes in a war zone? Atrocities, starvation, murder, rape? No accountability and it’s all okay with you?
…speaking of incompetent terrorist collaborators:
Do you know how many Palestinians have been killed trying to get aid from the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation?
At last count: 2500.
Yep. You read that right. 2500 Palestinians have been killed since the GHF took over as primary food distributor in Gaza.
How incompetent is that? Have you even heard of something as ridiculous as that before? Something so pathetic?
How is that even possible? How can you screw up something so fundamental as food distribution that you end up killing almost as many people as 9/11? Twice as many people as on October 7th?
And it doesn’t stop there.
Over 15,000 people have been injured. Some of them will never recover. The incompetency.
And who is killing and injuring all of these people?
Their collaborators: the IDF.
Are they just stupid? Do they not know how food distribution is supposed to work? Starving people come to get food. You give them food. And that’s it. It shouldn’t be this hard.
Or is it accidental? Did the IDF somehow accidentally shoot nearly 20,000 people that were trying to get food? Gosh: that’s a big number when you think about it. “30 people killed today” is how the newspapers report it. And it’s often buried so deep most don’t even notice. But the IDF have shot nearly 20,000 people since the GHF took over.
Or is it deliberate? One would hope not, because it if were, then people should be ending up in the Hague.
And these are old numbers. Since the cleansing of Gaza City started, it’s getting harder to keep track. So it’s likely to have exceeded 9/11 numbers by now. And if this keeps going this time next year, twice as many people will have been killed trying to get food from the GHF than died in the Twin Towers.
But it doesn’t stop there.
Before Israel broke the ceasefire earlier this year, UNRWA and their partners used to have about 400 humanitarian aid distribution sites up and down the strip.
How many food distribution points do the GHF have?
FOUR.
That’s right: only four.
And do you see the distinction between “aid distribution” and “food distribution?”
Because the GHF only do one thing. They just do food. They don’t do water. They don’t do tents. They don’t do feminine hygiene products. They don’t do medical supplies. Do you know who still does those things?
UNRWA and their partners.
And it doesn’t stop there.
Do you know where all four of the GHF food distribution points are?
Three are in Rafah.
One is in Gaza City.
There are NONE in the north.
All four distribution points are in evacuation zones. They are NOT located in any of the so-called “safe” areas. And people in the north can’t access them. It’s no wonder Gaza is now in famine.
Gaza City is currently under attack so the Gaza City distribution point is even more dangerous than it was before. Effectively, there are only three distribution points operating right now.
The thing is: its very easy to dismiss UNRWA as an “experienced yet incompetent terrorist collaborator” but that’s just a talking point. It doesn’t match the reality on the ground. UNRWA is a lifeline. They aren’t a perfect organisation. No organisation is. But the one thing they never did was shoot nearly 20,000 people.
We’ve been over this before. You’ve provided no evidence for this. Photos of servers in some undetermined location are not evidence. Some UNRWA facilities MAY have been used by Hamas after they were evacuated by UNRWA staff: but UNRWA aren’t in control of a building once they’ve left. And UNRWA have asked the IDF to provide more evidence so they can investigate: the IDF have refused.
You know: I’ve looked into this. I’ve seen a few screenshots. I’ve heard a few anecdotes. And there really isn’t anything that justifies the vilification that UNRWA gets here. And what I’ve seen doesn’t come close to the level of propaganda that I’ve seen being taught in some Israeli schools.
And this has nothing to do with food and aid distribution anyway. It’s an incredibly silly reason to try and shut UNRWA down.
Cite please.
Just a reminder: they haven’t been “caught” doing any of these things. Most of these are just unverified allegations.
UNRWA’s role is to “to provide relief to all refugees resulting from the 1948 conflict.” It’s important to understand that Israel’s attack on UNRWA are viewed through that lens. If they end UNRWA: then the refugee problem goes away.
…just a reminder, there is an arrest warrant issued by the International Criminal Court for a Mr Benjamin Netanyahu, born on 21 October 1949, currently Prime Minister of Israel, for the war crimes of starvation as a method of warfare.
https://www.icc-cpi.int/defendant/netanyahu
I’ve provided evidence collected and analysed by multiple independent organisations, including Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, the UN Special Committee, the South African submission to the International Court of Justice, and the UN Independent International Commission of Inquiry on the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including East Jerusalem, and Israel, that have used the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide as a legal framework, that have all concluded that what Israel is doing to the Palestinians in Gaza is a gen______.
All of the above organisations have concluded, based on an examination of the evidence and using the legal framework of the convention, that Israel intend to destroy, in whole or in part, the Palestinian people.
“Killing them all” isn’t a requirement of the convention. “Killing members of the group” is only one of five acts: the other acts include:
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its
physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
The most recent of the reports from the UN Independent International Commission concludes Israel are committing four out of five of these acts.
I didn’t really want to make the comparison. However, the example you gave missed important context.
“War zones” don’t exist in a vacuum. Globally as a people we’ve decided that war should have limits. That’s why we have the Geneva Conventions. International Humanitarian Law.
It appears that we are entering an age where the big, powerful nations have decided that these things no longer matter. I think its important that we acknowledge that, and we push back on that, and we do everything we can to vote for people that will not stand for that.
…of course they haven’t done it yet. It was conditional on Israel not continuing its gen_____ of the Palestinian people.
“Unconditional surrender” will likely mean the slaughter of Palestinians will continue. It just means that instead of a few relatively ineffectual attempts at resistance, Israel will be free to finish the job of the destroying the Palestinian people, in whole or in part with nobody trying to stop them.
The deal is still on the table. Once again: Hamas has agreed to the parts in Trumps “peace” plan where they step down from power.
Just a reminder that this is how BanquetBear likes to whitewash the butchery and rapes that occorrued on October 7. When Hamasniks decapitated a Thai farmworker with a shovel, that was “a relatively ineffectual attempt at resistance”. When they gang raped and slaughtered teenagers at Nova, that was “a relatively ineffectual attempt at resistance”. Never forget that.
If Israel wanted to destroy the Palestinian people, they’d be destroyed. Hamas would be easy to fight if Israel didn’t care about minimizing civilian casualties.
Power in Gaza stems from the barrel of a gun. If they “step down” but stay the largest armed group in Gaza, how exactly would whoever takes over prevent them from being in de facto control?
…please withdraw this personal and rather disgusting accusation. I’ve done no such thing.
“Destroy in whole, or in part” is the definition. That doesn’t mean just “killing.” It means removal of identity, which is why they are attacking UNRWA. It means forcing them from their lands.
We can’t predict the future. If the largest armed group in Gaza decided to spontaneously all combust tomorrow, what is there to prevent Israel from killing everyone in Gaza?
At some point, you need to stop playing hypotheticals and just stop killing people. You can figure out the details later. Killing people is easy. Peace is hard. But you can’t get to peace if you don’t stop killing people.
True, if this was really a “genocide” (that term has been misused a lot recently}, then Gaza would be a wasteland, instead of housing something like 2 million Palestinians. Instead something like 60000 by biased estimates have died. And a good share of that was caused by Hamas.
This- (of course biased) source argues why it is not Genocide-
Here is a more nuanced argument why it isnt a “genocide”
The Nazis killed about 2/3rd of the German Jewish population. That was Genocide.
This is just a nasty dirty war.
Deliberate mass starvation, and widespread mass murder and atrocities, as reported by IDF members themselves, makes genocide a reasonable concern. If Israel really wanted to make sure there was no genocide, they’d ensure Gazans weren’t starving by putting a competent organization in charge of feeding them, and they’d ensure IDF members aren’t giving and receiving orders to massacre unarmed civilians, again and again, with no consequences whatsoever.
“they could kill them faster if they wanted” is not remotely a defense against accusations of genocide.
When you stop describing Hamas’ heinous attrocities as “a relatively ineffectual attempt at resistance” I will stop having to remind people what those actions were.
The same thing that prevents Israel from killing everyone in Gaza right now: absolutely nothing. If Israel wanted to kill everyone in Gaza, there is very little that anyone would be able to do to stop Israel. Whether or not Hamas exists hardly changes the equation. Hamas aren’t plucky resistance fighters holding back the Evil Empire.
The reason that Israel doesn’t kill everyone in Gaza isn’t that Hamas prevents them from doing so; it’s that Israel does not want to kill everyone in Gaza.
Then Hamas can disarm and cease their terrorist attacks. They can figure out the details later.
…in Bosnia they only killed around 8000 people but that was still considered to be a genocide. Genocide has never just been about body count.
Regarding the ACJ article: who wrote it? I can’t find a credited author. What is their expertise on the subject matter? Because I’ve cited Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, the UN Special Committee, the South African submission to the International Court of Justice, and the UN Independent International Commission of Inquiry on the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including East Jerusalem, and Israel. I’ve shared hundred and hundreds of pages of evidence and analysis. Statements of intent from both Israeli leadership and the military. The AJC article doesn’t address that at all.
And the NPR article cites two people, genocide scholar Omer Bartov, an Israeli American scholar of the Holocaust, who argues that he has slowly come to the conclusion that, yes, this IS gen____, and John Spencer, who has a rather infamous reputation as a cheerleader for Israel in this war. Why would we believe the latter over the former?
For those who don’t know John Spencer: here he is in a debate with Mehdi Hasan. It’s 30 minutes long. And it’s unfortunately hosted by Piers Morgan. But honestly: the first 40 seconds is enough to tell you everything you need to know about Spencer. He simply isn’t credible here.
…I didn’t.
I’m referring to the acts of resistance that are happening on the ground now. Those acts of resistance aren’t targeting civilians. Gaza has a right to defend itself. The IDF are targeting civilians. They are deliberately starving the population. They are herding people into concentration zones. They are destroying all of the houses. They have banned people from fishing. They’ve shot nearly 20,000 people trying to get food. Palestinians in Gaza are allowed to resist this.
I have repeatedly called what Hamas did on October the 7th atrocities. They are warcrimes. It was a terrorist attack. Those responsible should be held responsible and bought to account. And I’ll repeat it again. Hamas are terrorists. There was no excuse for October the 7th. I condemn it absolutely, 100%.
…the gen___dal rhetoric that we have on record from Israeli leadership suggests otherwise.
I’ll take them at their word.
When was the last Hamas terrorist attack against civilians?
Israel can accept the deal on the table and let Hamas step down. Then they can figure out the details later.
Wednesday.
…what happened on Wednesday?
-
Hamas has not proposed a deal where they “step down”. They’ve proposed a deal where they say they step down but they keep all their guns and rockets and de facto control of Gaza.
-
The side that is losing a war doesn’t get to decide what deal is on the table. Kind of War 101, that.
Partially caused by Hamas who hijacked aid trucks and sold the contents. Not to mention smuggling in weapons in aid trucks.
Israel said that any delays in delivering aid occur “only when organisations choose not to meet the basic security requirements intended to prevent Hamas’s involvement”.
Cogat, the Israeli military body in charge of aid, said nearly 20 organisations that completed the registration process are bringing aid into Gaza, with roughly 300 trucks entering daily.
The new measures have brought an uptick in the number of aid trucks entering Gaza. But almost none of it reaches U.N. warehouses for distribution.
Instead, nearly all the trucks are stripped of their cargo by crowds that overwhelm them on the roads as they drive from the borders. The crowds are a mix of Palestinians desperate for food and gangs armed with knives, axes or pistols who loot the goods to then hoard or sell.
So, food is being allowed in, but Hamas run “security” is making sure almost none gets to the UN for distribution. This is not the fault of Israel.
…what question did you ask me to which I responded “Wednesday”? Going out on a limb here, that would be the thing that happened on Wednesday.
And to head off the question, how did the UNRWA prevent this when they were in charge? That’s the neat part: they didn’t! It’s just that for some mysterious reason, the UN was much quieter about these sorts of things when they were the ones in charge.
…every aid organisation on the ground says this wasn’t happening. Not in any way that was having significant impact on aid distribution.
From your cites: we have 100 organisations that have signed a joint letter calling on Israel to stop the “weaponisation of aid” into Gaza, and we have Israel claiming (without evidence) that its all the fault of Hamas.
Why don’t we listen to what those 100 organisations are saying? The “weaponisation of aid by Israel” is the problem they need urgently addressed.