Just to be clear, is it your assertion that every single Gazan child killed by the IDF was within a few meters of Hamas rockets at the time of their death?
Obviously not; there are other valid military targets than just rockets, so sometimes they were above a Hamas HQ or any of a number of other valid military targets.
Also, many Hamas fighters are under 18, so just because someone is a “child” doesn’t mean that they’re a civilian; some of the under 18 casualties are in fact from combatants.
And finally, like in any other war in history, there are accidents as well.
What I am very confident about is the fact that exactly 0 of the deaths of children OR adults occurred because the IDF was working to eliminate the population of Gaza.
And if the IDF says so, that’s good enough! Just like if the IDF says the guy they killed is NOT a journalist, or is a journalist and works with Hamas, then that must be true, and that’s good enough! If the IDF says this building housed militants, and that hospital hid a Hamas HQ, that’s good enough, no matter if there is any evidence!
The IDF reporting, without any additional evidence, is good enough for you. Case closed! How wonderful it must be to have such incredible, unshakable faith in a government that you would accept anything they say about their military operations without any skepticism or concern!
Yes, I consider the armed forces of a democracy with a well functioning press that routinely criticizes said military to be a pretty reliable source. Unlike a Qatari Prince’s pet journalism project, or the Hamas controlled administrative bodies of Gaza, or the PA which continues to pay out martyr funds after promising to stop.
A modified version of the Rick and Morty meme comes to mind. Your doubt in my sources means nothing; I’ve seen the sources you do trust.
What sources do I trust that you believe are worthless? Haaretz?
The one where a Qatari prince decided to LARP at a “free” press, for one.
Which one is that, and do you have a cite that I trust it?
My bad, he was the ruling Emir at the time that he established Al Jazeera, not just a prince! Sorry to undersell you, Your Highness!
So no answer to my question, then?
So you agree that Al Jazeera is an unreliable source?
In that case, what exactly do you object to about what Hillary said? Do you think that she is wrong about there being tons of anti Israel, pro Palestine propaganda originating in Qatar, Iran, China, and Russia on TikTok?
What? You made a claim about me, personally. I’m asking you to justify this claim.
As for Hillary Clinton – she is incorrect. I oppose Israel’s actions in Gaza (and the West Bank, for that matter) because of factual reporting about conditions in Gaza (and the WB), not because of any propaganda, unless “spreading factual information about conditions in Gaza” counts as propaganda.
If I’m wrong about you thinking that Al Jazeera is a reliable source, then I’d be relieved to hear that and will happily admit that I was wrong. That’s what I do when presented with new evidence that disagrees with my prior assessment of the situation.
Hillary Clinton said that you oppose Israel’s actions because of propaganda? That strains credibility.
If she said that there is lots of foreign funded anti Israel propaganda on TikTok, then she’s right about that, whether or not that’s why you personally oppose Israel.
Hillary said that young people are more sympathetic towards Palestinians, and more critical of Israel, because of “totally made up” videos showing the horrors in Gaza.
She is factually incorrect. There are tons of completely factual videos showing the horrors in Gaza. That’s what’s changing the perceptions of young people – completely factual information, not “totally made up” propaganda.
There’s always been propaganda. That’s not new. What’s new is completely factual videos that show utter horror and depravity in Gaza while the IDF is attacking and bombing them.
Nothing about this conflict is new. This is the same exact rehashed discussion from 2008 and from 2014 and the wars with Hezbollah.
Maybe the footage is new to you, but the way it’s used and misrepresented to paint Israel in a bad light is exactly what I remember from every other round of this.
The only thing that’s new is how widely and quickly the same old propaganda I’ve seen my whole life can now spread - thanks to TikTok in large part.
ISTM that there’s this myth that many defenders of Israel and the IDF continually repeat to themselves – that nothing Israel does in the real world has any impact on perceptions from non-Israelis; it’s all based on anti-semitism and propaganda. That no one could possibly be strongly opposed to Israel and the IDF merely based on factual information.
That’s an easy lie to tell one’s self in order to avoid looking at the facts of what Israel and the IDF’s actions are actually doing to civilians and how it looks, but it’s still a lie. There’s lots of anti-semitism, and lots of propaganda. Lots of people who hate Jews, and hate Israel, no matter that they do. But there are also lots of people without those characteristics who are sincerely, and very reasonably, judging Israel’s actions based on factual information, factual reporting, and the real-world consequences of the bombs and military operations; and based on all that, believe Israel and the IDF are guilty of monstrous evil recently and at present.
I mean, if you listed things that actually happened in this conflict that make significantly worse than other conflicts of this type, then maybe I’d buy that. But in fact, the rate of civilian casualties is very low for an urban guerilla conflict of this sort, not to mention consistent with past wars between Israel and Palestinian groups.
And then the specific examples given to justify why no, this really IS that bad invariably turn out to be horseshit. For example, there was a letter signed by 99 US healthcare workers saying they treated children who were shot on a daily basis; but then it turned out that the letter is an exact copy of an earlier letter by just TWO doctors months earlier and then signed on to by 97 more as if they had the same experience; and when research was done into those two doctors and the record from the hospital they worked at, it turned out that - gasp, who could have seen this coming - they were lying.
When you demonstrate over and over and over that you have a clear and extreme misunderstanding of the facts, then no, I don’t believe your issue with Israel has anything to do with the fact as they actually are.
It’s a fact that multiple IDF members (and at least one US merc) have reported to media that they have witnessed or were ordered to shoot unarmed civilians on multiple occasions. It’s a fact that the IDF has killed several thousand Gazan children and tens of thousands of Gazan civilians. It’s a fact that the initial IDF reports after several questionable incidents turned out to be false. Those facts alone are enough for me to be very confident that Israel and the IDF are overseeing multiple atrocities in Gaza.
And there are tons more facts that add to that confidence. One of the biggest is that those in charge of the Israeli government are incompetent, amoral, and often supremacist and openly genocide-supporting liars.
And if you had similar criticism for the Palestinian leadership, which is orders of magnitude more incompetent, amoral, supremacist, and openly genocidal - then I might believe that you are genuine in your criticism.
Eta: actually, I do think that you think that you are being genuine. I think you just have a very skewed ideas of how both sides are behaving, in how much faith you place in either side’s reports, and in the standards you hold each side to.
There is no “Palestinian leadership” (thanks to Netanyahu, for years, weakening every alternative to Hamas). Only Hamas, which yes, are also incompetent, amoral, and supremacist/openly genocidal liars.
And funny how you ignore all the other facts. You don’t dispute any of these facts. Yet somehow you think it’s dishonest or delusional to feel differently than you do even accepting the facts from my previous post.
I’ll focus on this. There is literally nothing that Hamas could do that would justify the actions of Israel and the IDF against Gazan civilians. Just like there is literally nothing that Israel or the Jews in general could do that would justify the actions of Hamas.