…the list of names of the children that have died so far in the conflict have been made public. I’m unaware of any allegations that any children on the list were “Hamas foot soldiers” or “Scouts”. 2000 of the names released last week were under the age of 12. I’ve just done a cursory search of the news over the last few days and nobody else seems to be making these allegations.
Can I ask, where is this coming from?
I don’t think that’s how “ceasefire” works. AIUI, a ceasefire is an agreement negotiated by mediation with (usually?) a third party, where the warring parties mutually agree on the conditions for halting active conflict, either as a step in a conflict-ending peace process or as a temporary measure.
Refusing to consider discontinuing violence unless and until the other party unilaterally discontinues violence first isn’t how you get to “ceasefire”, AFAICT.
…I’m going to dismiss the Daily Mail outright. You’ve got a cite from 2004. The 2021 report cites the alarming use of propaganda and incitement, which were valid. And notes that 9 children that were killed had links with terrorist groups, including “having a father who was a senior member of Hamas”, another who was documented “throwing stones”, and another who said “r “Allah
willing, I’ll become a martyr [shahid] fighting in the path of Allah.””
This isn’t strong evidence of Hamas footsoldiers at the kind of scale that would explain 4000 Palestinian children dead. It certainly isn’t something the IDF have claimed as an explanation for the large death toll.
This is a common strategy used by total war organizations. It requires neither military lists nor age limits (If you watched Albanian or Romanian WWII movies, 6-year-old child solider are very common and widely used).
Innocent children is a propaganda tactic, as same as accuse enemy use child scout is a propaganda too. I don’t want to defend Israel or accuse your moral insistence. I’m just trying to point out that you can never distinguish them, don’t wasted time on this topic.
…that’s a cite from 2015. I’m asking about this conflict. And I’m talking about this death toll, and I’m talking about specifics.
If we are pivoting from “Hamas are hiding behind children” to “those children are actually Hamas” then thats fine. I’ll ask the same question:
Do you think all of the child deaths were Hamas footsoldiers, or that some of the child deaths were Hamas footsoldiers, or we have no real way of knowing?
Is there some reason to believe that Hamas has changed its ways between 2015 and now?
OK, here’s another source for the same information.
…the IDF didn’t bomb and kill 4000 children in 2015. They are bombing children now. I’m not the person who bought child soldiers into the discussion. That would be you. If it’s relevant, then show the relevance.
Again: do you think all of the child deaths were Hamas footsoldiers, or that some of the child deaths were Hamas footsoldiers, or we have no real way of knowing?
I’m not arguing that child soldiers don’t exist. Especially in Gaza, where the borders have been closed, where they have nowhere else to go, when a ground invasion is happening, where the median age is 18. (as opposed to 28 in the rest of the world)
But I don’t see how relevant it is here. Unless you are claiming significant numbers of that 4000 were child soldiers, actively involved in hostilities. Is that your claim?
They were killed in IDF strikes on Hamas positions. If Hamas did not choose to operate out of densely populated urban centers on purpose in order to complicate strikes against them, those kids would still be alive.
…assertion with zero evidence.
Again.
Like I said. Echoes of the nuclear energy thread. You’ve made your mind up long ago, I’m done trying to change it.
And again, “zero” evidence after we subtract out all the evidence about the three sites we discussed. When Banquet_Bear says “zero” he means “you don’t have a detailed explanation for every single bomb, just for three of the most talked about sites”. That’s a very strange definition of “zero”.
All that really demonstrates to me is that antisemitic people exist, especially when they’re not personally affected by anything? I think we already knew that it’s difficult to discuss this issue in an open forum for any significant time without actual racism joining in.
From 2012, Hamas summer camp began to be reported in Israel media, it’s a regular course for training young generation, based on its official telegram and Facebook channel, it includes ideology lectures, military training, and electronic simulations. In 2023, the newest official name is Jerusalem Shield camps (مخيمات درع القدس ).
According their posts, the camp located at Daraj and Al-Qarara.
“I want them to put my legs back, they can do it,” Baz says in desperation from her bed at Nasser’s paediatric ward. Every time she opens her eyes as the painkillers wear off, she sees her bandaged stumps.
Her mother, Lamia al-Baz, 47, says Layan was wounded last week in a strike on Al-Qarara district of Khan Yunis, part of Israel’s unrelenting military campaign in response to bloody Hamas attacks on October 7 that Israeli officials say killed more than 1,400 people, most of them civilians.
Any evidences about Hamas child scout probably died in the strike? Yes, there’s a strike on Al-Qarara.
all of the child deaths were Hamas footsoldiers? No.
But if these little Hamas know the tunnel, I guess others is the ‘human shields’
…I’m NOT clicking on a link to Telegram. That Youtube video was posted 10 years ago and I’ve seen scarier videos from Republican lawmakers and their families.
As for the rest of your cites, I don’t know what I’m clicking on with any of them. I’m not clicking on the Telegram ones. The Facebook one just takes me to a random Facebook page.
As for the final link: apparently Al-Qarara is a town with 29,004 people. Two daughters and two granddaughters were killed in their family home? And this has something to do with tunnels because you’ve randomly shown a picture of some kids down a tunnel?
Of course it wouldn’t. The IDF has a duty to protect Israeli citizens. That’s the reason it exists in the first place. It does not have a duty to protect all the civilians in the world - it’s an army, not the Avengers.
I don’t want Palestinians to die. But I don’t want to die either, and my life and those of my countrymen are more important to me. It’s not something I feel I should be ashamed of.
You’ll be shocked to hear that the IDF also sponsors summer camps for kids.
https://www.kapondefense.com/idfyouthsummercamp
https://findyoursummer.org/programs/chetz-vkeshet-cvk
And the US Department of Defense also runs a vigorous Junior ROTC program, with over 500,000 high school students participating nationwide.
https://www.usarmyjrotc.com/army-junior-rotc-program-overview/
And in Germany there was an organization called the Hitler Youth.
And all these groups are exactly the same, no difference at all.
Obviously, Hamas only runs camps because kids need to have fun over the summer, right?