I didn’t interpret the OP to be asking who could have made it to Mt Doom, but rather who would have been psychologically (spiritually?) capable of destroying the ring if s/he had the opportunity.
No mention is made of getting there, but only of throwing the ring into the fires.
Gimli might have stood a small chance. He might have destroyed it out of sheer Dwarven stubbornness. It is well established that the Seven could not corrupt the Dwarf Lords. It did increase their tendency towards greed, though, so Gimli might have had thoughts of all the wealth in Middle Earth at his feet.
I do think that there was one other person in Middle Earth who could have done the deed, but he was never a character in The Lord of the Rings: Cirdan the Shipwright. He held two of the Great Rings, and gave them both away. I know that the Three did not control their wearers like the One, but it shows that he had no interest in being a ruler of any kind. He only cared about building ships and seeing that his people have a way to return to the West when they were ready to depart. I can see him tossing the Ring over his shoulder into the Crack, then asking if he could please get back to his ships now.
Of course, there was probably no way that the Council could have talked him into doing it.
Re The Eagles
I can think of a reason why it might not have worked. It seems to me that certain individuals are much easier for Sauron to notice. OTTOMH Gandalf is attacked at Weathertop, because he’s much easier to spot than almost any other person in Middle Earth. Hobbits are barely noticable. But, I think such powerful beings as the eagles might get Sauron’s attention regardless of where he was looking at the time.
Re Gollum
Sauron doesn’t release him out of mercy. He lets him loose so that Gollum can go find the ring, put it on, and throw up a huge neon sign for the Nazgul. I also agree that Frodo’s necessary betrayal of Gollum to Faramir is what turned him back to the path of evil and Shelob’s lair.
Don’t forget that the Dwarves could not resist the power of the silmarlil either – their theft of one from Thingol had some nasty consequences.
As for Cirdan, he did give away lesser rings, but even those to whom he gave them would not carry the One Ring for fear of its power, and perhaps he was making discretion the better part of valor.
Exactly. For the sake of argument, all the orcs in Mordor are out for a smoke break, and the way is clear.
Got caught up in my hijack there and never answered the question. Anyway, I think Bombadil is the only one who could have thrown the Ring away of his own volition, because he’s the only one over whom the Ring has no power. Unless maybe one of the Valar were to try and destroy it, and even they’re not wholly immune from temptation.
I think it also depends on timing.
If the Cracks of Doom were a day’s journey from Rivendell, I don’t think Frodo would have had a problem. It was hanging onto the ring for many many months, hiding in shadows and moving closer to the point of the ring’s power that lured him to the temptation.
Even a day earlier, perhaps two days earlier, he might not have succumbed.
I don’t think he is. With possession of the Ring, he would have made Middle Earth the largest arboreum in the universe. No, the only possibilities come down to two creatures: Frodo, and Bill the Pony.
Isn’t that… a different movie entirely? Great, now the eagles are wearing Star Wars helmets, and I’m visualizing Darth’s Tie Advanced as having a giant eye for a cockpit.
WHEEE-HEEE-HEEE-HEEE! I AM WILLIAM~ PONY LORD OF ALL MIDDLE EARTH!!!
John Elway. Because, as we all know, Eru or the Valar could’ve stomped down Sauron in no time if they actually wanted to, and John Elway is, as all true Broncos fans know, God (among other things.)
I never thought of that angle. Would Bill have even been tempted, as he has no fingers, so cannot even wear the Ring?
“Though he had found out that the thing needed looking after; it did not seem always of the same size or weight; it shrank or expanded in an odd way, and might suddenly slip off a finger where it once had been tight.” – FOTR, The Shadow of the Past.
The ring would expand in size to be a horse-collar, and Bill could nudge his head into it and rule all of Middle-Earth, demanding apples, carrots, and sugar cubes from all and sundry.
Waaa-Hooooo! Waaaaa-Hoooooo!
(In Elvish, of course!)
Another point about the eagles and one which bothered me a bit in the movie. I just couldn’t see the eagles winning a fight against any of the fell beasts. If Sauron saw that any of the eagles had it, it would be too easy, in my opinion, for one of the Nazgul to easily take him down.
As long as we’re considering Tom Bombadil, how about Goldberry?
Of course, objections are the same as Tom: she would not go, and anyone so powerful could not get withtin 100 leagues or Mordor without something evil and icky noticing and telling Sauron all about it.
But . . . if she somehow got there, she could do it, don’t you think? We don’t have direct evidence that she is as immune as TB, but it seems like a reasonable possibility.
If you change the word “immediately”, you’re left with the idea that he would have succumbed eventually. Well, so would everyone, including Gandalf. As to whether Sam would have succumbed sooner than anyone else, I don’t think you have justified that.
Letter 246 says that would not have happened if Sam had not reacted suspiciously at one crucial moment, regardless of his previous behavior.
I think the letter says it was Sam’s “devotion” to Frodo that prompted his behavior to Gollum. Tolkien does not mention selfishness and arrogance there.
I think Tolkien would say grace is not earned. It is given - to everyone. Gollum’s came through Frodo’s pity and understanding.
Gollum killed Deagol to get the Ring, then used it for the smallest, meanest purposes. He was rejected by his friends and family because of this. One even might go so far as to say he ultimately chose most of his suffering (excluding actual torture by Sauron). And about Sam’s “jealously” and immaturity: that may be present, but I personally can’t see it. I put it down to his single-mindedness.
No. As above, grace is not earned, it is given.
I didn’t say it came from there. I thought that letter was very important the first time I read it years ago in Letters, and I think I was the first one to post that link on the board.
Having said that, right now I can’t find where Tolkien said that was the overriding theme, or even if he said exactly that. I am sure it’s a major theme, as well as The Evil of The Machine and the obvious themes of Power and Good vs. Evil. But I do have a clip from an interview where Tolkien says the “wisest remark in the whole book” was this excerpt near the end of “The Council of Elrond”: “Yet such is oft the course of deeds that move the wheels of the world: small hands do them because they must, while the eyes of the great are elsewhere”.
I think the letter treats Sam appropriately, honestly and frankly. But I think you took it much further.
I’ve come this far, I might as well add one last thing. You quoted Tolkien’s description of Sam from the letter:
I am still puzzled by your strong reaction. I may be talking through my ass here, and if I am, say so and I’ll apologize. It’s occurred to me that this description somewhat matches one political side’s perception of a particular figure on the other. Would that have anything to do with your reaction?
I don’t think I tried to imply that Sam would have succumbed sooner than anyone. Hobbits by their nature are going to be the last to succumb, outlasting folks like Aragorn, Faramir and Gandalf (all of whom would have done so immediately).
Incorrect. The entire paragraph here:
Yes, the incident at the Forbidden Pool is mentioned, but it’s a small element in Sam’s ignorance of Frodo’s capacity for compassion towards Gollum. The “one incident” you refer to is what Tolkien considers the “most tragic moment” - not the “only tragic moment”.
Incorrect. Again in the above-quoted paragraph, the word “devotion” is accompanied in the same sentence with the words “pride” and “possessiveness” - all referring to Sam (and other hobbits). I don’t think “arrogant” and “selfish” are far variations on those terms.
Again, incorrect. From the letter:
Yes, and? Purgatory sucks and is well-earned for all of us. But the point of it is redemption and forgiveness. Frodo was capable of that, Sam was not.
That’s fine if you don’t see it. It might be a bit of projection on my part, clouded by the the variations in the movies.
Absolutely. I think that’s more a product of the constant Sam-loving on the SDMB, that I think is a bit over the top. Tolkien wrote him as loveable, and says as much in that letter. But he also infuriates through his various (necessary) flaws.
Hilarious! And it’s hilarious because you’re completely right - I was going to comment on such a similarity, but decided against it. But just to clear that up, I didn’t notice the connection until after I composed most of my post, so what I’ve written isn’t colored by such a lens.
The people who gave rings away: Celembrimbor, Cirdan, Bilbo and Sam.
Another point to remember is that it was mentioned the ring became more ominous, and possibly more influential, closer to Mt Doom.
Another possibility, someone less ‘human’ – would Treebeard be affected? A trained mouse?
Re: another volcano. I get the impression that it’s one of the many magic/metaphor blurrings in Tolkien’s work. The ‘mundane’ explanation is that there was only one volcano, but that ties in to the mystical ‘fires that made it’ thing.
Not completely true. We know that Thror passed his ring (given to the dwarves by Sauron) to his son Thrain in the 3rd age. Ok, perhaps Thrain picked it up once dear old dad passed on. Regardless, Gil-galad owned 2 rings of power in the Second age. He passed Narya to Cirdan and Vilya to Elrond. It would seem that the three great elven rings lack the possessive will that inhabits the others.