Can anyone tell me why Frodo is the nominal hero of LOTR.
The guy is a dud. Mostly he seems puzzled and indecisive. If he does make a judgement call he is wrong. He’s forever sooking and whinging, he frequently hints at giving up. He’s inattentive and the general cause of any difficulties he and Sam face. He doesn’t seem brave. He is disloyal to Sam at the drop of a hat. He is Gollum’s ready dupe. He provides no help or support to Sam but like a child with a parent has Sam to look after his needs.
Sam is a rock. He sees through Gollum and is willing to risk Frodo’s ire to protect Frodo from the little creep. It doesn’t matter how badly Frodo treats him, he remains a loyal friend. For Frodo he fights every foe placed before him, usually fighting out of his division. He’s the kind of guy to give up the last of the food or drink for the good of the quest. He wills Frodo on when the little wimp wants to quit. He doesn’t expect to make it home but will go on to the end.
More specifically how is Frodo a hero when:
He wants to quit “We can’t get through without being seen.”
The only time Sam isn’t around to save his butt, Gollum conveniently falls off a cliff.
The Orcs rescue him from the big Spider and conveniently take him away.
Sam bloody carries him up Mt Doom.
He chooses to wear the ring. If not for Gollum he would have become Sauron Jr.
His big claim to fame is only he can carry the ring it would corrupt anyone else. Well not my boy Sam. He took it when necessary and carried it. The guy is a glorified jewellery model
And Merry and Pippin were involved in some pretty heroic stuff.
For those who think Mr Wood will get an Oscar nomination - it would be more likely if he had been the better actor in his scenes with Sean Astin rather than the lesser.
Do you mean that in the books it’s clear that Sam is the hero? In the movie half the time the others only ever mention Frodo. It’s not like they’re saying “I hope Sam is kicking Frodo’s sorry ass along.” It’s more like “Oh, poor Frodo”. Even Gandalph at one point bemoans the unreasonable job he gave Frodo as though Sam is having a holiday.
It’s Frodo’s cross even tho Sam’s being Simon of Cyrene.
He couldn’t have done it without Sam (or Gollum) but he did do it & it broke him for life till he had to go off to The West for healing & rest. Sam was able to have a normal happy life with a REALLY hot wife & adorable kiddies.
Why do you insist that there must be only one hero? The main point of the books is that no individual can fulfull the task of destroying the Ring - it takes a Fellowship to do it.
Over eight hours of movie, give or take, the Ring is shown consistently overpowering and corrupting it’s owners - usually humans. Frodo is a hero for managing to carry the darned thing all the way to Mordor without becoming Gollum.
Sam is a hero for his steadfast loyalty and bravery in the face of forces he cannot understand, and in the face of the radical changes in his friend (again, that he does not understand).
Aragorn is a hero because - well, 'cause he’s just so heroic and all. Even Boromir is a hero for his noble death.
I think the point is that, flawed as each of these individuals are (and each is allowed to show unique weaknesses), the combination of their strengths is sufficient, and necessary, to defeat evil.
Oh my goodness - one of the questions about LOTR that I find most compelling…
-1st, movie Frodo & Sam are not book Frodo & Sam, tho they come close. In book Frodo never turns his back on Sam (even in the movie he only tells Sam to go home; could be interpreted as a kindness, really)
-Both Wood & Astin were fantastic actors, I thought
-There are indeed many kinds of heroes in this story (it’s big enough) :traditional-Aragorn; everyman-Sam; magical-Gandalf; sacrificial-Frodo
-Yes, Merry & Pippin became heroic too. Esp. in the book
-Now, to the main point: Frodo chooses to carry the ring, knowing full well what it is. Sam doesn’t. He only carries it when he thinks Frodo is dead. Free will is an important theme. Characters must choose to do the right thing.
-Frodo’s pity for Gollum is in a way the point of the whole story. If he had just killed him as Sam had said Frodo would not have been heroic. The quest was able to succeed, through grace, only because of FRODO’s pity and compassion. Yes, in a sense, Frodo failed. He gave in to temptation at the end. But he had been through unimaginable stuff and still got as far as he did. In Mordor Sam is still able to hope; Frodo cannot (he cannot remember the taste of food; he sees the wheel of fire with his waking eyes and all else fades…) but still he goes on.
When I was younger, I always saw Sam as the hero. Now (35 years later), it’s Frodo.
See also Roger Sale’s book on Modern Heroism, where he elaborates on Frodo’s character.
PS - I have a friend who insists Gollum is the hero since he’s the one who destroyed the ring. He thinks they should build a statue for him in Minas Tirith and have an annual Gollum day.
"The guy is a dud. Mostly he seems puzzled and indecisive. If he does make a judgement call he is wrong. He’s forever sooking and whinging, he frequently hints at giving up. He’s inattentive "
I would assert that the one reason Frodo is so resistant to the reing is his total lack of ambition and ability to organize–the kid’s a product of priviledge raised by a half-crazy eccentric uncle. The ring wants to organize, rally, deceive, take over the world, etc…the poor thing can’t get a foothold in Frodo the way it can in a Human, who desires power and is vexed by an embarrassingly short lifespan; an Elf, who may have lived in the day when Morgoth was in chains and Sauron was just another nasty ghost cruising the world; a Dwarf, who could finally drive evil out from under the ground and delve to whatever wealth is buried; or a Wizard, who could finally get done with all this good/evil crap and get on with organizing a SERIOUS study group.
We may have become a little spoiler unfriendly here. I tried to hide specifice plot points.
Since my OP after seeing the movie (which I absolutely loved) I’ve read a bit on the 'net and had a think and in all honesty I’m stunned and somewhat disappointed because :
Many people rate this as one of the best books ever but by my reckoning it fails in fundemental elements of story telling. I’m glad I never invested the time to read hundreds of pages of story to find that the happy ending is derived by fluke. My understanding of storytelling is that you are cheating if your hero is helped by luck. For mine the real story ends when Frodo fails in his mission - the convenient appearance of Gollum is cheap. It allows the ring to be destroyed without requiring anything of the hero - no brains, no bravery just dumb luck..
If you’re judging the characters of Sam and Frodo according to the Peter Jackson movies, you’re going to misunderstand the characters from the book. In fact, if you go by the movies for anything about the story, you’re going to misunderstand the book. The movies are at best a pale, distorted shadow of the book. There’s no point in even trying to understand the motivations of anything in the movies. Read the book.
I think I explained above that I would be really pissed off had I read the books.
It reminds me of Extremities starring Farrah Fawcett. The story establishes a really good conundrum. She has trapped a rapist in her house and is threatening to kill him. Her housemates come home and we have this battle of what is right and what is wrong. Should she kill him and bury him in the backyard, or should she call the cops (he has explained why he will get off, quite correctly). Great little problem, eh …
So I can understand that Tolkien may represent Frodo’s problems in a more satisying manner, I just think it fails as storytelling. But shit tell me I’m wrong…my son says I should read the book too.
Just have to respond once more - Remember Frodo doesn’t succeed out of dumb luck and Gollum doesn’t just “show up”: It’s only because of Frodo’s pity and true compassion. He’s that kind of hero. For the swashbuckling type we have Aragorn. I think it’s wonderful storytelling. Tolkien stays true to the end with his idea of the ring being a corrupting agent - it even corrupts Frodo, who has been so strong in fighting it. If Frodo had just tossed it in, now that would not have been good storytelling.
PS - There’s other good stuff in the book that had to be left out of the movie. You may not love the book but give it a try.
No, once more unto the breach. You’re making sense. How does Gollum not just show up…in the movie he falls off a cliff and then reappears at the appropriate moment.
And I assume you are saying that Frodo’s pity for Gollum (rather than killing him as Sam wanted) allowed him to finish the story as it did.
and as for Gollum falling off…it’s similar to what happens in the book (where Sam fights off Gollum in Shelob’s lair). Gollum lays low, the hobbits think he’s gone for good, but of course he’s been trailing them to Mount Doom all along. Perhaps dear old Prof. Tolkien pulled a rabbit out of a hat here, but then again, knowing the extreme of Gollum’s craving and what a wiry old coot he was, I think it’s plausible.
I agree with those who say it’s not just about 1 hero. The entire fellowship is heroic.
However, Frodo is the most tragic hero, because he’s taken on a quest that’s virtually impossible, even with Sam’s help. At the beginning he doesn’t really understand what the ring is, but he goes forward anyway, despite his fear and the terrors he’s already faced. By the end of the book he’s grown and understands much more what all of them went through and how the ring had destroyed Gollum. He couldn’t finish the quest on his own, but perhaps he got closer than anybody else could have.
I don’t agree with that. I think it’s the exact opposite. When Frodo takes the ring, he doesn’t know what it can do to him. When Sam believes Frodo to be dead, he becomes the true hero of the story. He has seen what carrying the ring has done to Frodo. He also knows the danger he will face by continuing the journey. He knows exactly what he’s getting into and chooses to continue the journey anyway and THAT makes him far more heroic than Frodo.
After seeing ROTK for the second time yesterday, I was struck by the realization that Elijah Wood is an awful actor. every goddamn “emotion” was portrayed by him as knitted brows. The guy’s gonna have some serious lines on his face when he’ older if that’s always the way he acts. Perhaps I’m obsessing here, but I was not impressed with his performance at all. I think it would make a good drinking game, actually. “Whenever Frodo knits his brows, drink.” You’d be drunk in about 10 minutes.
