According to this survey, not more than 9% of Hispanic teens regard themselves as more American than Hispanic. It would seem to me that this trend does not bode well for the future of this country. But I may be wrong.
How does this compare with previous generations of immigrants? Is this a natural part of immigration or has there been some change? If the latter, is it the result of the new emphasis on the various ethnicities as being positive attributes (as opposed to a previous emphasis on fitting in - the new “mosaic” compared to the old “melting pot”)? Is this trend likely to maintain itself? Points to ponder.
Perhaps you have another link, yours was broken so I couldn’t see the question. But hell, I won’t let that stop me from taking a crack at it. I think several things are/maybe going on.
[ul]
[li]The questions may have been phrased improperly or misunderstood. In Cali, many latinos still speak spanish as their primary language and may have had a difficulty understanding the question and/or giving a good response.[/li]
[li] Again in Cali, many latinos retain close ties, including sending money and visiting Mexico, and may see their presence here as transient.[/li]
[li]Hi Opal![/li]
[li] Like many immigrant communities, it’s taking several generations before they become homogonized.[/li][/ul]
IzzyR: “How does this compare with previous generations of immigrants?”
I have recently been reading about this topic myself, in order to find out the real story about previous generations of immigrants and how quickly they “Americanized”, as opposed to more recently. Just beginning the research, but my impression so far is that 19th century German immigrants were like current Hispanic immigrants in this regard; emphasizing the “German” in German-American. (Generalizing.) Italian immigrants in the later part of the century, their children assimilated much quicker. Haven’t looked into Asian and Eastern European immigration history yet.
There was an article in the Atlanta paper a few days ago about local black college students visiting a predominantly black village in Mexico.
One of the students expressed surprised that these villagers considered themselves Mexican first and black second. The student said he always considered himself Black first and American second.
So the phenomenon doesn’t appear to be limited to Hispanics.
I don’t know that discrimination is necessarily the largest or even significantly major factor.
My explanation would be that, no man is an island but a very large group of people are a community. Particularly if they share a common language and culture. Very very large communities such as these tend to have a greater impact on the ambient society than a number of significantly smaller distict groups.
According to this survey, not more than 9% of Hispanic teens regard themselves as more American than Hispanic. It would seem to me that this trend does not bode well for the future of this country. But I may be wrong.
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Two remarks:
The responses seem to presuppose that “Hispanic” and “American” are mutually exclusive mindsets, like two slices on a pie chart. This survey must have been designed by some idiots who never stopped to think about what it really means to be an American.
The survey was conducted by a market research firm, and it’s becoming clear that corporations are starting to use ethnicity as a selling point. I’m not taking a position on whether assimilation is good or bad, but I wonder if this going to encourage or discourage assimilation.
Right – I’m betting that because of that, in the mind of the respondents, “American” in this context carried with it an implication of someone assimilated into WESS (White English-Speaking Suburbanite) culture. Which they honestly are not. (BTW the idea that hitting the mainstream involves not just integration, not even assimilation, but downright abject spit-on-your-mama self-repudiation has been a powerful element holding back many communities – but it doesn’t help that there are those who indeed expect that. )
I would think the ideal would be that to ALL of them felt they are BOTH fully “Hispanic” AND “American.” Anyway, almost by definition, a “Hispanic” IS an American or someone living in the USA culture, nowhere else is anyone census-classified as such…
[quote]
The survey was conducted by a market research firm, and it’s becoming clear that corporations are starting to use ethnicity as a selling point. I’m not taking a position on whether assimilation is good or bad, but I wonder if this going to encourage or discourage assimilation. {/QUOTE]
Hmm… food for thought, indeed.
Moreover, it was conducted by a market research firm that appears to specialize in Hispanic issues. http://www.mktdev.tnsofres.com/ They appear to have a vested interest in stressing how different Hispanics are, so that various Corporations will buy their research product.
“With more than two decades’ experience throughout the Americas, TNS Market Development provides leading U.S. corporations and global advertising agencies with an in-depth understanding of U.S. Hispanic and Latin American consumers, local customs and cultures, and the products and services Latin consumers use most–in short, the answers you need… from the people who know U.S. Hispanic and Latin American market research best.”
I couldn’t find the 1999 study on the web, but their 1997 study consisted of interviews with 500 Hispanic teens in 5 major markets. The quality of their survey methodology was unclear.
In this week’s NYT’s Week in Review, there’s an article on those 19th century Germans in Iowa; it appears consistent with your POV. Apparently the big push towards assimilation occurred during WWI, when various anti-German language laws were passed and nationalistic fervor was stirred up.
My point in all of this is that if this type of trend continues, or grows, it is likely have negative consequences for this country. Every country requires that the people within identify with each other. If large groups of people see other groups as not being from the same group as themselves, it impacts their willingness to get along with each other and to sacrifice for the common good of the larger group.
Of course, if it is indeed true that the phenomenon is likely to pass, then no harm involved. Also, flowbark’s point is well taken - if indeed the authors of the study are a research firm specializing in marketing to Hispanics, one must suspect that the results are skewed in a direction that they would clearly benefit from.
The comparison with Germans is intriguing. Did large numbers of people actually speak German until WW1? Also, is the decline of German-American identity also connected with the tapering off of German immigration (as immigrants became further removed from the Old Country it would have become harder to maintain the identity.) If so, one wonders what would or could happen if immigration would be maintained. (I am aware that the Yiddish newspapers and theatres flourished in NYC until the end of large-scale immigration in the early 20s. By the late 30s they were almost defunct).
IzzyR: *If large groups of people see other groups as not being from the same group as themselves, it impacts their willingness to get along with each other and to sacrifice for the common good of the larger group. *
(Kind of weird phrasing: how can “groups of people” not see “other groups” as “not being from the same group as themselves”? But I think I get what you mean.) I’m kind of skeptical about the alleged dangers of this situation, on two counts: first, that we’ve pretty much always had a high degree of ethnic balkanization in the U.S., going all the way back to Ben Franklin’s dislike of the Pennsylvania Dutch and continuing right up through persistent nativist prejudice against the so-called “lesser races” of Germans, Scandinavians, Jews, Irish, French-Canadians, Italians, and Chinese. Hundreds of nineteenth-century and early twentieth-century popular novels are just loaded with such ethnic polarization. I’d like to see some quantitative evidence that we really were formerly a much more ethnically and linguistically cohesive nation, before I join the moaning chorus about how things have degenerated since the good old days.
Second, I can’t help noticing that in all the historical examples of such polarization that I’ve seen, a great deal of the pressure for a “balkanized” society comes from the more established ethnic groups who are trying to keep the “undesirables” in their place. If we really think it necessary to try to strengthen the perception of “American identity” among Hispanic-American immigrants, it would probably be more useful to work on anti-Latino prejudice among the descendants of earlier immigrant groups.
The definition of an American (or really of any group of people) is created by the people that are in America. In other words, there is no unique essence of America that is being corrupted (or balkanized or whatever). Seems to me like we are not dealing with a transition in what immigrants are, but rather a transition in what Americans are. It seems like the standards for “fitting in” to American can now include speaking Spanish or considering yourself “Hispanic”. This isn’t a bad thing- it is just another change. Lord knows that America has seen lots of change and will likely see more.
yeah, I’m not trying to start a moaning chorus just yet either. But to say “well everyone always hated everyone anyway” as you seem to be saying, is also wrong. One of the main reasons all the old hatreds you describe faded is because the ethnic identities which gave rise to them also faded. Today, a person of German, Irish or Italian background will see himself as an American first and remember his ethnic background in time for the parade. The question is whether the ethnic groups of today will assimilate to the same extent. Which of course they might. Or not.
Whatever should or shouldn’t be. As a practical matter, if you have groups of people who see each other as distinct groups, there is a high likelihood that there will be real and perceived iniquities on both sides. Once the Brave New World comes this will no longer be the case (in fact, true Communism will be achieved, and the State will wither away ). But until then we’ll still be here, dealing with the consequences.
I believe this is true, at least in areas like the Upper Midwest with a high percentage of German-Americans. I have a friend from that part of the country whose grandparents never learned to speak much English at all. Her mother didn’t learn English until she began elementary school in the 1940s and was tormented for being a “Little Nazi” until she managed to lose her German accent.
The study in question makes a basic, yet popular error. It confuses nationality with ethnicity. Being “American” is an issue of nationality; in general we don’t EVER think of ourselves as ethnically American (I’m a good example, I think of myself as 1/2 Irish, 1/4 German, 1/4 Scots). Most people in America are the same, in that they think of themselves ethnically on the basis of the country of origin for their ancestors. I suspect it will take a LONG time for this to change, and will require some real diversification of the culture here from cultures elsewhere.
So, if a person from, say, Mexico is asked if he thinks of himself as American or Hispanic, the person is being asked to define either their ethnicity or their nationality, depending on which answer they choose. In that circumstance, it isn’t too surprising that few would deny their ethnic roots and consider themselves only by the nationality.
A better survey would be to ask if they identify themselves as American or Mexican (or whichever country they have immigrated from). The results might provide a basis for some rational discussion of the issue of “assimilation” into our national culture; it is certain that the study cited cannot.
The important issue that I see is from flowbarks post indicating that the study in question was done by a market reseach group that specifically targets hispanics. It would be surprising to me if their study reflected any degree of “Americanization” at all.
In response to Izzy’s question about the German immigrants, my grandpa and grandma lived in ‘little Germany’ (Racine Wisconsin) around the turn of the last century, they not only continued to speak German in day to day activities, but their church services were conducted in German, their wedding certificate, my dad’s baptism certificate etc were all in German (this takes ya through to the 1920’s) During WWII, my dad (who enlisted) was treated differently/carefully by the army because his parents were German, according to him. (and my daddy wouldn’t lie to me )
). But until then we’ll still be here, dealing with the consequences.
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