Divorce - what is a fair property settlement?

In My Humble Opinion
21

Sure she should. So should you. (Almost) Everybody else does.

Again, I didn’t say that you should support her entirely or unconditionally or eternally. I simply said that the decisions that you made together have put her at an economic disadvantage, and helping to mitigate that disadvantage is the responsible and ethical thing to do. If you split, she shouldn’t expect a free ride, and you shouldn’t expect the woman who stayed home to raise your children to live on Ramen so that you can pursue that old dream of teaching disadvantaged youth to decoupage. Ya know what I’m sayin’?

And hey, you may find that *she’d * prefer to get free of *you * financially as soon as she can. I think most people would choose financial independence.

22

Thanks all.

Of course I intend to speak with a lawyer - and wouldn’t dream of drafting the papers myself. I’m a big fan in allowing specialists handle their area of expertise. Have a call in right now, as a matter of fact. But to whatever extent possible I’m hoping to keep as many assets as possible between the two of us, rather than donate it to one of my brethren. :wink:

And I’d hope we can avoid having the process become too terribly protracted and ugly. I’m willing to pay considerably to avoid that.

And of course I was not seeking legal advice here. Merely peoples’ experiences and opinions. To date, the sum total of people I have spoken honestly and openly with about their divorces is - let’s see - zero. So I appreciate any assistance those of you may provide as I gather information, and identify likely issues and my options.

As I’ve said, I have no objection to splitting all assets 50/50. Hell, don’t really mind if she keeps her jewelry/violins, etc, which are worth far more than any items I possess/care about.

Nor do I object to splitting pay checks with her - at least for a period of time and so long as she is working full-time. What I do wish to avoid is giving her 1/2 of my income in perpetuity, and if she is not working full-time. When living together, she more than earned half of the income with her efforts regarding our children and our shared household/lifestyle. But should we cease to share a household and lifestyle, well, my willingness to simply pay 1/2 of my income for the rest of my working life and perhaps into retirement, doesn’t seem like such a deal!

As to the likelihood of this happening - yesterday morning her last words to me as I left for work were “You have to give me a divorce. I want you to file and I want half.” To which I responded "Okay."

This a.m. I asked if she still felt the way she said the previous day.
-She said “Yes.”
I asked, "What did you have in mind in terms of timing and money?"
-She said she thought it would make most sense to have the divorce become final around the time we sold our house, which we plan to market next spring.
I said “no-fault” required that we live apart for some period of time.
-She said she would prefer to discuss it after our 2d kid goes to college Thursday.

So yeah, it is not for certain, but I’m not seeing either of us being terribly interested in continuing together.

23

Good luck.

24

Well at least she didn’t say that she was going to take you for every penny you have.

I see that you are planning to sell the house. This is a good thing. I suggest that you and your lawyer(s) set up some sort of trust for the kids college funds and take that off the table entirely, placing it out of both your hands. I’m not suggesting that either of you would ever dip into that money, but it would be better to ensure that those funds get where they NEED to go, rather than being part of a settlement, or leaving them to your kids to manage.

My suggestion to the rest of it is this: She seems agreeable to a 50/50 split in assets, so don’t push your luck. I would offer her the same sort of package the company offered my father to retire early as an exec: 2 years of a support amount paid regularly according to your current pay schedule. I think half is excessive, since you are no longer sharing the expenses of the same household. Since she HAS the capability to work, even if she is long out of practice, it should be assumed that she will have to get herself employed and pay her own way. I would calculate this amount not to exceed 1/2 the cost of rent and untilities on nice apt or small home in your area. Considering that she will receive a significant amount of money and assets, that seems fair to me.

25

Dinsdale - how long have you two known - or accepted - that this divorce is best for both of you?

26

Ahh - you could probably do a search and find a thread at least a couple of years ago where I said I thought I was getting divorced. So it has certainly been on the table.

Recently, with the 2d kid going to college, and discussing selling the house, I’ve been thinking about what I want the next part of my life to be like. And I think both of us have become less willing to put up with what we view as the other’s crap. So being divorced seemed more like a real option, instead of just a heightened state of a running battle.

Does that make sense?

Just got off the phone with a lawyer. He allayed many of my worst fears. In short, said 60/40 property split to her, 1/2 my pension, and 50/50 income split for 5 years should be BY FAR my worst case scenario. We’ll see how that plays out. And the preferred option is what is called a “collaborative” process. Wish me luck.

27

Good luck, then! :slight_smile:

28

Good Luck Man. I know you were thinking about it for a while, and with your 2nd kid off to college now may be the best time. They are old enough to understand to the best of their ability, and have matured enough soas not to have their lives turned upside down - I would think.

Meanwhile - I’ll understand if you want to buy a vet and take up hunting in your new life…these things happen :smiley:

29

Yep I would agree with his rough assessment based on my experience of those people here in Washington who have been divorced (but each state is different). But if you can accept that intellectually you are good to go. I sent you a PM outlining what I had in my settlement, but it is similar to this and I was fine with it. I moved on and so did she and frankly we are both happier. It is a good thing you have talked about it with her, so it won’t come as a shock. Good luck!

30

Vettes hold no interest for me. But a Corvair, OTOH. And my buddy’s had that Nighthawk basically gathering dust in his garage for the past few years now… :cool:

31

Good luck. You are decent people - both of you. Try and remain decent people so your kids can depend on you not to have scenes at their wedding or have to decide who to invite to your grandchildren’s birthday parties and who to “get together with later.” You don’t have to end up good friends, but ending up remembering that you once liked this person is better than the alternative.

32

Chicago Lawyer? If your marriage is flagging you’re supposed to take ballroom dance lessons with Jennifer Lopez. Then your wife (Susan Sarandon) will realize how much she loves you and by the end you’ll be tango-ing with her in the kitchen. You do look just like Richard Gear, right?

My apologies if you haven’t seen “Shall We Dance”.

Not to make too much light of the situation. I hope you are both able to resolve this with as little drama as possible for the entire family.

StG

33

legalsnugs pretty much hit anything that I was going to highlight in a longer post. I had the misfortune of taking a family law class, and one of the things we had to do was organize into teams and parse out a marriage settlement (surprisingly similar to your situation). Man, that was not pretty. People stopped talking to each other, heated debates and conversations, and I wouldn’t be surprised if it continued any further that a fight would break out. In all seriousness, good luck.

Anyway, the short answer that I want to highlight is that these settlements can vary widely even intrastate. Communal property states seem to have less variance though, and that means everything is split 50/50. I forgot what that meant for future earnings, but it’s not great for the primary breadwinner.

For other states, the theory we were taught in class is that the woman (well, whatever class you want to call of the spouse that makes the house/earns less money) should be given what she would have expected had the marriage continued to exist. The longer the marriage, the more she’s entitled, too, e.g. such as providing for her retirement. It’s an extremely complex process.

34

Thanks for the laugh, StG! :smiley:

Yeah, Richard Gere is just what I think when I look in the mirror! :rolleyes:

35

Good luck. How long does your youngest have at home? How do you think she’ll take it?

You probably don’t need to be reminded of this, but it’s so, so important. My husband’s parents are divorced, and I can’t tell you how grateful he and his siblings are that his parents are now willing to spend time together for the sake of their kids. When we first met, they wouldn’t, and it was such a pain. “If we spend Thanksgiving with Dad, we have to spend Christmas with Mom” or spending Christmas Eve with one parent and Christmas Day with another. Then you add kid’s spouses into the mix, and you’re trying to share special events with three or more sets of parents. Driving all over the damn state so that each set of parents can get their face time is not conducive to a holiday mood.