DIYers and pros: How much might this cost?

In My Humble Opinion
1

I have a bathroom that’s about 3.5’x5.5’ (not including the tub area but including the vanity area). Beneath the toilet and behind the toilet, the floor is rotted away (the bathroom is above my basement and the floor is exposed in the basement “ceiling”).

There’s some residual water damage across all 3.5’ in the toilet area, so the entire floor underneath that will need replaced.

The floor is covered in 6" ceramic tile, which I do not expect to be saved or replaced. But since half of the floor is going away and the remaining half will be covered in tiles I’ll no longer be able to match, it’ll be easier/better just to replace the entire bathroom floor.

Anyway, I have a friend-of-a-friend coming to quote me on this. I have absolute trust that he won’t screw me on price. But, I also know he’s going to want a check or cash and probably won’t let me pay in too many installments.

I don’t know when he’ll be around to do the quote but I am getting antsy about how I will come up with the payment for this. I need to start planning yesterday.

So how much do you think it’ll cost for:

  1. Remove vanity and toilet
  2. Cut out floor (tile and plywood) above the floor joists
  3. Replace floor (plywood and perhaps greenboard/cementboard?)
  4. Put back toilet and vanity and caulk where needed.

I will take care of the flooring (vinyl tile) myself after the job is done.

Anyone ever do this and know how much time and materials might cost?

2

I’d guess around $600, but could be as much as $1,000 if you are in an expensive area.

3

Hmmm…I seem to recall that the flooring goes back on before the throne gets reinstalled. Leastways, that’s how I did it.

I’d guess beowulff’s estimate is more or less ballpark. From the DIYer’s perspective, what you’ve got there sounds like a long, annoying weekend’s worth of work. If everything goes right (but it won’t), you might get it done in a day. Figure half a day to rip up the old flooring and tiles and remove the fixtures. Probably will have to cut or desolder the existing plumbing, so figure on no water for the period of the repair, unless you have separate shutoff valves for the bath. If the joists are in good shape and it’s just the floor, then materials will be cheap – a sheet or two of plywood and some cement board, depending on the amount of floor that’s trashed, and some plumbing supplies.

If I were tight on money, this is a repair I’d do myself.

Things that could go wrong – worst case is probably finding out that the rot has spread further than you thought – e.g. under the tub.

4

Here would be my breakdown

Materials:

Subfloor material: $50
Tiles, mortar and grout: $150 (less if you go with bargan tiles, more if you go with an upscale style)
Grout sealant (good) - $10, (Better) - $30
New wax ring for toilet: $2-$5
Replace plumbing hook up for toilet (your old stuff is probably corroded and should be replaced - $20 or so
Silicone, nails, screws and other misc hardware: $15
Labour:

Remove toilet - 3/4 hr
Remove Vanity 1-2 hrs, depending on hook ups and style of vanity
Tear up sub floor - 1 hr
Replace sub floor - 1.5 hrs
Install tiles - 2 hrs

End of day one (You had better have a bathroom handy because toilet won’t be installed until tiles have set)

Day 2 Labour:

Grout tiles - 45 minutes
reinstall toilet - 1/2 hr
Reinstall Vanity - 1-2 hours, again depending on hooks ups and style of vanity
Clean up (Combined day one and two) - 1 hr

Note that I did not include sealing the grout. This should be done few days after it has dried so that it can cure completely. To save you money, I would probably tell you how to do it your self.

Total costs

Material: Under $225

Labour: At $35/hr (my friend rate) roughly 10-12 hrs - say $400.00

No taxes have been aded at this point

Say $650-$700, for good, properlly done work.

Other costs that may arrise

Disposal of materials is not included. If your local situation does not allow small construction waste, you may pay a small fee ($10 or so) for this

Massive rot (Stringers need reinforcing or replacing, or rot has spread under tub, walls etc) wel…, this just got EXPENSIVE… hard to estimate, but basically you would be looking at a whole new bathroom install, so call it $1200-$1500 minumum. A good, honest contractor should be able to advise you on this upon removing the old subfloor/viewing floor from underneath.

The Vanity: If it is a built in sytle, it may not be possible to remove it intact for less than the labour cost of replacing it.

Permits: Unknown if this is required in your area, probably not, but if they are $30-50.
Best of luck
FML

5

Thanks, FML and others!

I actually don’t plan on replacing the ceramic tiles. I plan to do just use self-adhesive vinyl tiles after the fact. I’ll probably purchase these ahead of time in case they do need to go under the toilet.

The vanity is just a wooden box with a single unit sink-and-countertop on top. The piping underneath is pvc to the back wall for the drain, and flexible tubing for the hot/cold water.

There may be some massive rot. But so far all of you guys have indicated the job will be within my price range, even if it’s worse than I imagine. I was thinking something like $4k-5k. $600 to $2000 is much more palatable.

By the way, what is a usual hourly rate for “not a friend” contracting like this? I’m in the Cleveland/Akron, Ohio area (where houses in the suburbs cost about $170k).

6

Hi Zipper

Please reconsider the self adhesive Vinyl for the bath room. Its a really poor choice. Even the best quality ones just don’t stand up for long in there. At very best you’d get 5 yrs before you’d see peeling, and long before that you’d be getting water under the tiles, which is what caused the whole problem in the first place.

If ceramic (which can cost less than good quality self adhesive tiles) is n’t for you, consider sheet lino. You want to create a seamless, water proof barrier in a bathroom floor.

Installing sheet vinyl is pretty easy. When the room is empty (ie toilet and vanity are out, and the new sub floor is installed, remove the baseboards (if not already removed) lay down newspaper so that it fits the room EXACTLY. Tape the sheets together, roll them up, and you have a perfect template to cut out your new lino. Move the template around on your vinyl until you get the best match up with the pattern, mark with a grease pencil and cut with a utility knife. Your local DYS Store or a good flooring store should have 4’X6’ sheets called “Bathroom blocks” for around $40 or less. Glue and tools should cost about another 20… Read the instructions on the glue, and some of them can be quite “fumey” so have good ventilation.

Note on "bathroom blocks - They are essentially roll ends of vinyl, all priced the same, so pick out 2-3 (or more) colours/patterns you like and go with the heaviest (by weight) it will generally be the best quality.

Also, if you have a contractor replace your subfloor, let them know what type of floor covering you want to put down, as it can affect material choice, intallation techniques.

I will check back in on this thread if you have any questions.

Once again
Best of luck

7

Missed the edit window

Re Contractor rates:

Contractor rates vary wildly by region and type of contractor… I am really just a “glorified handyman” and so don’t charge as much as a “real” licensed contractor. Around here, Edm, Alberta, Canada - this kind of work would run $60/ 85 hr, easily. What ever contractor you choose do 4 things 1) No more than 30% down payment, 2) Check the better busness Beireau (I just can’t spell that word, EVER!), 3) Get EVERYTHING in writing, materials, costs, estimated time (itemised as I did above) and expected finish dates, etc 4) Inform whom ever it is that there will be a 30 day Hold back of the final 10%, to gaurentee your satisfaction. (Allows time for installation flaws to show up)
Hope this helps

FML

8

could you clarify this? I’m thinking a 4’ x 4’ piece of flooring would cover this? Are you quoting a 4 x 8 for convenience? To me this looks like all labor and little in the cost of material. It’s such a small space that remnants can be used for the vinyl covering. The hardest part would be getting the floor smooth enough to lay the vinyl. would you use a finished piece of plywood? The last time I put down vinyl I spent a tremendous amount of time filling and sanding the low grade subfloor.

9

It’s common practice around here to lay 6mm luann ply on a plywood or OSB subfloor, stapled on 4" centers. A water mix trowelable filler can be obtained in the event depressions or seam gaps need leveling.
Some places have the luann in nom.3/4" or better thickness which can be used for the subfloor on 16" centers.

10

Thank you for the advice on the floor covering, FML. I’ll talk to the dude about the costs of ceramic vs. vinyl. I just wanted vinyl tiles to save time/money (it is my only bathroom and I work at home, so having it ripped out means I have to find somewhere else to work).

I was cool with it only lasting 5 years until you pointed out that I’d have water damage right away again…and I want to avoid that.

11

If you want to do vinyl tile, take a look at Excelon made by Armstrong. 12"x12" is obtainable in a wide array of colour and pattern, though it does get more costly based on that. I’m not up on current pricing, but basic was a buck/sq.ft. last I knew. Very durable, easy to work, and if used with the recommended adhesive completely waterproof. You’ve probably walked on it in commercial installations that have seen twenty years service and still look new.

12

$50 was a very rough estimate. Let me rephrase it as "up to $50. Also I was working with a 4X8 sheet in mind as Zipper’s dimensions were 3.5X5’, and in such a small area would prefer to do a seamless laydown, especially considering its a “wet” area.

Armstrong’s Excellon is a viable choice, as well, Carson, but it can be quite slippery when wet, requires waxing and polishing, and by no means is a simple as a self stick tile to install. It is a VERY durable tile though, and I have installed it in challenging areas like entrance ways (this is Canada, entrance ways take a beating in the winter).

I love ceramic/porceline tile, however, and probably a bit of my bias came out in my post.

Zipper, another thing that will probably add to the cost/effort of the project is that you will probably have/want to repaint after the project is finished. Even a skilled installer is probably going to mark up, scuff the walls a bit during rip out and install of the sub floor.

Threads like this are why I am glad the SD exists. I realley enjoy the “over the fence” neighbourlyness that they bring out in people. Thanks to everyone for their great imput.

Regards
FML

13

Which type of flooring would you guys rather do, based on how long it takes - sheet of vinyl/linoleum or ceramic/stone tile?

Do you need to bring in a table saw/tile saw with water and all that if you do a simple tile bathroom floor, or can you cut it by hand and/or with a tile breaking tool?

14

Threads like this make me wish we were actually talking over a fence. There’s so many handy folks on the Dope, and I would trust almost any of you to come do projects for me. But everyone lives too far away! Booo!

15

FML, I have the Excelon in my own bathrooms, a mix of the stonetex and solid colour. I haven’t noted any slipping problems but I still have my sealegs. We haven’t waxed it, just wet mop when needed apart from dusting/ hoovering.

Zipper, something to consider apart from installation is how the floor feels underfoot in the winter. Tile and stone are COLD if you don’t have radiant flooring even with air temps in the 70’s.

16

Hi Zipper

If you go with ceramic, have it installed. Cutting around the sump hole of the toilet is probably the trickiest set of cuts in this case, and although I could do it with a straight cutter and nippers, I would’nt wish that on an amatuer.

Carson’s suggestion of Armstrong tiles is a good second alternative, as it can be cut with a jig saw (in a pinch - there are special tools available).

If you go the DIY route, read up on it. Not sure, but I think Armstrong has really good instructions on their website.

While you are there, also check out the sheet vinyl instructions. It is surprisingly easy, and if you go with a remnant, bathroom block, you can do it quite economically.

Here is a link to the armstrong DIY page
http://www.armstrong.com/resam/na/home/en/us/diy.asp

Regards
FML

17

One trick I learned for vinyl flooring is to make a pattern around objects with newspaper (with sticky tape added facing up). Leave the pattern in place. As you are laying down the vinyl (from a square corner) you put it over the paper pattern and lift up. You then have a perfect pattern stuck to the vinyl and can precisely cut it to fit. Saw this on “This Old House” and it works really well.

And count me in as someone who loves the internet fence.

18

I recently redid my wife’s bathroom after unplugging a sink (long story), and due to subfloor issues, decided to throw in a floating floor. It took me about an hour to install, looks great, and was relatively inexpensive. No glue, no nails, no tape. It’s obviously not real wood, but still looks fine. And my notoriously picky wife loves it.

That being said, I’m obviously nowhere near as informed about the other types of flooring here as others are.

19

Missed the edit window.

I found one small picture of the finished product from a picture I posted in a thread on rescuing stray cats. Enjoy the cat pic if you want, otherwise, he’s standing on what is now the bathroom floor. The white in the various crevices is leftover drywall dust from when I was working on the walls and has since been washed out.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/11243901@N02/2187515175/in/set-72157601420098900/

20

I’m by no means an expert on the topic but I feel like the quoted prices are extremely low. I have a friend who is currently in the midst of a bathroom remodel and he’s going to end up spending between $10,000-$12,000 due to water damage. Before I panic you too much, I will say that he’s paying for a new vanity/sink/fixtures and getting a custom pocket door installed to the adjacent bedroom so there’s a lot of added expense, but on the flipside he’s paying friend-prices much like you are. He had professional quotes on the job that were upwards of $15k.

I will be very interested in hearing what your FoF quotes you for the work, but don’t be completely shocked if this comes in substantially more than the $600 that has been estimated here. My gut would have it around $1000 for a 1-day job, closer to $1500 if the labor reaches into a second day.

First off, I would be very hesitant to do a patch job in the bathroom. Generally speaking patch jobs always fail eventually and when dealing with a wet environment like a bathroom that allows for some much more expensive mold or rot issues down the road. It shouldn’t overly increase the costs to replace the entire floor and subfloor if the vanity is easily removed and the layout is nice and rectangular.

Also, I would look into doing the Demo work yourself. It’s not a tall order to uninstall the fixtures and to tear up a tile floor and rotten subfloor. Assuming you can manage a day or two without a sink (you can probably tear things up around the toilet until the contractor arrives) it could save you a few hours of labor costs and make it less likely that the contractor needs to invest 2 days worth of work.

It’s worth mentioning that a ceramic tile floor is going to go a long ways towards increasing the resale value of the home. Even if you aren’t going to invest in a full bathroom remodel having a long-term solution to the flooring is the biggest and hardest step. At a later date it would be easy to buy and install a new tub, toilet and vanity so choosing quality floor materials in a pleasant and neutral color would allow you to further upgrade the entire room with a minimum of redundant costs.