I can’t remember the last time someone said vær så vennlig to me in Norwegian; around here at least it’s vær så snill. It functions in much the same way as please, even allowing small children to pester their parents: vær så snill vær så snill værsåsniiiiiiill!
However, there’s enough of a difference that English speakers tend to have trouble using vær så snill in a natural fashion and, to an even greater extent, Norwegians have trouble with please. Way too many English teachers translate please as vær så god, a similar but not identical expression, and their pupils end up saying “your coat, please” as they hand a coat to a departing English speaking guest!
There are no words in Nepalese for either please or thank-you. When speaking, you always change the pronoun/verb ending to reflect the level of respect you wish to/are required to show to the person you’re speaking to so, in a way I guess it’s sort of like saying please–but only if you’re asking someone important!
Example:
“malai euta beer dinuhos” = to me one beer give [you, oh person who is higher in social status than me]
“euta beer dincha” = gimme a beer
Not exactly “please”, but it’s as close as they get. “Thank you” does not exisit in Nepalese. There is a Hindi word for “thank you” but Nepalis would use that only on rare occasions and probably only if they had been given a really big gift/favor. With more tourism (especially in Kathmandu), I’ve noticed merchants and hotel personnel saying “thank you” (in English) more often than before.
I, being American, have a really hard time not saying “thank you” and use the hindi or English word all the time in Nepal. I’m sure the natives think I’m wierd/stupid.
On a somewhat related note, Nepalis rarely say “goodbye” (namaste) at the end of a phone conversation. They just hang up. I’m still not used to that one.
IIRC you can say “paljun yksi olut” in Finnish, just as you say “palun üks õlut” in Estonian.
In Swedish you can always add tack (thank you) to your request, but just as in Danish and Norwegian we really have no word directly corresponding to please.
[hijack]
Confusion between the meanings of the words “can” (am I able to?) and “may” (am I permitted to?) is not uncommon amongst English speakers. My English teacher had a mantra that he would intone when we asked “Can I go to the bathroom?” which went “You CAN, but may you?”
[/hijack]
During recent travels in East Africa, I was surprised to learn that “thank you” is used very infrequently. When provided service in a restaurant or place a of business, a nod of the head is expected. Thank you is reserved for real favors from friends.
They think it’s strange that people from the West say thank you so often. Almost that we cheapen the phrase by over-using it. So the words exist, but you hear them very rarely.
I think that business in non-Western societies is often a lot less “friendly” and more, well…business-like. They haven’t been infected with feel-good “the customer is always right” marketing tactics. The folks at the corporate office haven’t yet mandated a fake “thank you, come again” yet…
Why is “the customer is always right” so offensive to some people? If I’m working in an office and a customer comes in to give me business, I ought to express my gratitude for the fact that were it not for him, I wouldn’t have food to feed my family. Unless I’m in France or something.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Doghouse Reilly *
**
Not quite, but close…the reality is analogous to Nepalese.
Japanese has four different levels of diction, in which different words are used depending on the social status of the speaker and the listener.
“Arigatoo” is a humble form of the adjective “arigatai”, meaning “thankful.” Gozaimasu is the humble form of the verb “to be.” “Arigatoo gozaimasu” thus literally means “I am humbly humbly thankful.”
Domo provides emphasis. Informally, “domo” by itself will do. “Domo arigatoo gozaimasu” means “I am very humbly humbly thankful.” Of course, by itself it just means “very,” but Japanese is convenient in that it provides all sorts of shorthand forms.
“Kudasai” is form of “kudasau,” an honorific verb whose usage roughly corresponds to please - but a direct translation is more like “to give.” “Tabete-kudasai” (please eat) might literally translate (with a lot of implication) to “honorably give me the favor of your eating.” More intimately, “nasai” may be used - although its overtone is a bit imperative, and depending on tone of voice can be rude. “Suware-nasai,” spoken softly, would mean “Please be seated.” “Suware-nasai!” barked to a child would mean SIT DOWN THIS INSTANT!
“Doozo” is a further “please,” with a concept of welcoming. Rather like “go ahead.” Used for eating, drinking, sitting, excusing from the table, etc.
Now we add layers.
First, those four different levels of diction can apply to all sorts of words, and thus frame conversations in which “please” and “thank you” are the least of the speaker’s worries.
Second, further gradations can be implied by using passive voice, or its opposite, the causative voice.* These forms then combine with various conjugations of kudasau, or its analogue, itadaku, which means “to receive”. Please don’t ask for a translation, it’s almost impossible to convey.
This is an example of my aphorism about Japanese: it’s not a language you study, it’s a language you marry. Sadly, I was only ever interested in a more casual relationship.
*“Causative voice” may be unique to Japanese. It’s a verb form that expresses causing or forcing someone to do something. It’s especially helpful in combination with the passive voice. “Taberu,” to eat; “taberareru” is eaten; “tabesaseru” to cause to eat; “tabesaserareru” caused [by others] to eat. “Tabesaserarenakattaraba,” “were it not that one had been caused to eat.” Isn’t this fun?
Fun, irrelevant facts:
Causative voice is also used to grant permission, which is a son-of-a-bitch to figure out.
Passive voice can be used to imply suffering. Japanese lets you say, “On the bus, I was sat down next to by [oh, I dunno, let’s say] Carrottop,” with the clear meaning that you suffered.
Because, in most industries, it’s pretty unlikely that the customer knows anywhere near as much about the job as the person who has been training for, and subsequently doing, the job for years.
Not really relative to the OP at hand but I feel obligated to mention that I was on a mission when last visiting Hawaii. I had learned and often used the word mahalo (thank you) but wondered aloud the Hawaiian equivalent of you’re welcome. As far as I learned, it doesn’t exist.
Hawaii, I’m thankful for the islands… who needs a damn welcome!
I doubt it. I know it exists in Esperanto (manghi = to eat; manghigi = to cause to eat), and I doubt Dr. Zamenhof made it up out of whole cloth… give me two more years to finish my linguistics degree and I’ll let you know for sure
In Thailand, thanks are usually expressed by the “wai” (hands clasped together prayer-style). This is done differently depending on the social status of the other person. For little things, a smile will often suffice. A verbal “thank you” is usually reserved for very large gestures, and would generally only be a response to things like: “Here, have this million dollars”, or “Please allow me to put out your house fire”.
I find the Thai system nice, because it eliminates the incincere “thank you” we Westerners encounter a gazillion times a day when shopping or transacting business. And it means that everybody goes about smiling, which is cool.
On a slight hijack, is it true that Germans will accept compliments and praise in a stony faced way, without batting an eyelid, let alone smile or say “thank you”? As a person who feels uneasy being complimented, I can see a plus side to this system.
But he who pays the piper, dude. If I don’t like the service I’m getting from a particular company, sure, my suggestions for improvement may not be appropriate given my layman’s status. But as a customer, I damn well am right in my decision to take my business elsewhere.
“The customer is always right” means that the customer’s needs and desires are paramount. Without him you would be proclaiming your superior industrial expertise on an unemployment line.
…and just as you might say in English “I prostrate myself before your benevolance and beg only for a beer in return”
It does make a kind of sense but it really is overkill and I have only once heard anyone use the word paljun and that was in thanking someone profusely. The word doesn’t really mean please.
Is this the phrase that Darqangelle was refeering to ?
uh… (looking through various Estonian-Finnish, Finnish-English books) …no.
I can’t find anything regarding “paljun” in any of my reference material. Nor was it ever mentioned to me by any of my Finnish friends.
I found it a little surprising, too considering the closeness of the Finnish language to Estonian. And Estonians seem to have all the courtesy basics covered.
(PS, you’e dead-on with the Estonian, Floater, you wouldn’t happen to BE an Esto, would you?)
Woo Hoo, I beat Astroboy to this.
Former Korean dweller here.
Please = ju say oh, or , ju ship she oh (more polite)
Thank you = kam sa ham ne da, or , go mop sum ne da
No, my Ugric roots are from the Finnish speaking parts of Northern Sweden (although I know only a handfull of words and phrases). However, I read an aticle the other week about the Swedish variant of Finnish, Meän kieli, and the author said that it, like Estonian, has kept many old words and grammatical features that have disappeared in Finland. I suspect that using “paljun”, (which actually means “many”) is one of those things. I did discuss the matter yesterday with a friend, who grew up in Southern Finland, and he had never heard of it, but another Finn I know once said the he recognised it from where he came in Northern Finland, but it sounded very old he would never use it himself.
BTW Reading the above mentioned article made me understand why my father claimed that he could unserstand Estonian quite well, when many Finns have difficulties with it.
Perhaps my spelling is off. Phonetically the word sounds like Pally-on as in (phonetically) “Kittos oikey pally-on” a phrase my (finnish) ex-wife told me means to express an almost reverential gratitude to someone for something. Her folks are Karelian (it was they I was thanking) so perhaps it is regional.
