I spoke Japanese when I was a small child, but it’s been a loooooooong time since I was a child of any sort; let alone a small one!
I was taught that ‘You’re welcome’ is Doo itashimashite. As foreigners, we may have been forgiven any usage errors. I’ve read that Ieie (‘No, no.’) may be preferred. How about Daijoobu desu yo (‘It’s all right.’)?
Guidance? (Don’t need answer in any foreseeable future.)
I’ve always heard it as your first entry. I only know daijoobu as just “okay!” or “great!”, but then I didn’t speak the language and there’s no accounting for colloquialisms, e.g. sick=terrific.
In my experience, it is far more common for Japanese people to say iie or tondemonai than to say do itashimashite in response to thanks.
However do itashimashite is perfectly correct and won’t sound strange when you say it.
Let me preface this by saying that in Japan, it’s not a big thing to say “You’re welcome”. We feel “bad” that we’ve imposed a burden on someone by putting them in a situation where they have to be attentive to my need of gratitude in exchange for whatever it was that precipitated the word of thanks. That’s why we often say “Ki ni shinaide”, (Don’t worry about it), or “Ieie”, (Not at all). Some people respond back, “No, thank you”.
Do itashimashite is technically correct (and formal), but it’s not something that is used in regular Japanese conversation. It would be somewhat analogous to someone saying “Greetings!” in English in place of, “Hello”. Not wrong, but not natural. hibernicus’ suggestions are fine, except “tondemonai” is very informal, and it can also be used to express outrage or something preposterous, which is how this word came to be used as a response to “Thank you” - It’s preposterous to think that my trivial deed deserves your attention and word of gratitude.
Posting from my phone, so forgive the mistakes.
First, a little background on the culture and the elements which determine the usage.
All cultures have “polite fictions,” things which are pretended in society. In America, we pretend that almost everyone are social equals.
OTOH, Japanese culture is based social status, including if a person is even one year older than the other. For people of relative equal status, the fiction is that they both treat the other as a social superior.
dooitashimashite is more appropriate for social superiors to use to social inferiors. It also implies that the person who says it believes that they deserve the thanks they receive. Same thing for food, the will apologize for the simplicity, even if the spend all day cooking.
Japanese routinely deny that their gifts are adequate, even if they spent a lot on them. They will say something like “please do me the favor of accepting this worthless trinket.”
You then thank them profusely, as if they just gave you their daughter in marriage and they openly worry that you will now be inconvencied by the additional baggage.
In most of the formal situations where responding to a thanks, I usually went with the ieie bowed and said that it was I who needed to thank them.
Among good friends such as golfing buddies, ii yo “that’s all right” works.
I can’t think of a situation to use daijoobu desu yo as that is mixing the polite ending with the sort of rude accepting the thanks. It can be used to accept apologies, in the sense of “it’s nothing (so you don’t need to apologize).”
Dumb question: people keep using “ie”, is that just written shorthand for “iie”, or are both acceptable? I notice my dictionary lists both for “no”, but now I’m wondering if there’s some intricate formality details between the two. I’ve never heard of “ie” before, I’ve only seen the one with the long vowel.
E: Though I am familiar with “iya” as a more informal form for “iie”.
“Iie” is “no” when written, but “ie” is the pronunciation when spoken.
Not quite. Iie (no) and ie (house) have different pronunciations. However, when doubled, iie comes out as ie-ie rather than the more cumbersome iie-iie.
ie, chigaimasu.
Iie is pronounced iie. Ie, ie. “いえ” and “いいえ” are written and spoken differently.
If you really want to go into the details of the difference between iie, *ie * and iya, you can read this. For those who can’t, the gist is that there are situations where you can use all three, and situations where only two or one of them is appropriate. Hence, the difference ie, iie and iya isn’t between written and spoken form, and it’s only partly between formal and informal.
I’m a native Japanese speaker and I agree with jovan. ie and iie are very similar in meaning, but they are distinct words pronounced differently.
I’m a native Japanese speaker as well, and the argument isn’t about whether “iie” and “ie” have different pronunciations, (they clearly do), but whether they can both mean “no”, and the answer is, yes. Sure, their usage is different, but they are both used to respond in the negative, just as Nope, Nah, Uh-uh, is used to mean “No”.
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ETA: “Ie” to mean “House” and “No” have different intonations as well. A native Japanese would not mix those two up.
That’s not true, I was replying to a post of yours in which you wrote:
This would lead to believe that iie is the written form and ie the spoken form. Like scr4 agrees, that’s not the case. They’re two different words with mostly but not completely overlapping usage and similar but distinct pronunciations.
Anyway, a happy new year to all!
I have a related question for our native Japanese posters.
Based on my idea of Japanese ultra-politeness in formal settings, I would have expected Japanese people, when receiving a gift, to be extravagantly thankful, to talk about how wonderful and special the gift is, how unworthy the recipient is of such generosity and so on. Effectively, I am extrapolating from what would be considered polite in western cultures.
However, what I’ve experienced in reality is that the Japanese person receiving the gift puts it aside almost immediately after the most cursory of acknowledgement. This is in the context for example of a work meeting where the visitor brings a memento from his/her home country as a gift for the host. I’ve noticed overseas visitors being taken aback by this seeming abruptness.
The best explanation I can think of is that the giving/receiving transaction is potentially “awkward” and the receiver is aiming to minimise any awkwardness by getting it out of the way with as little fuss as possible.
So, two questions really:
IAN Japanese, but I think it’s considered rude to open a gift in the giver’s presence. It would be embarrassing to the giver if the gift was somehow inappropriate. I understand that Japanese society is stratified, so if gifts are given to people of different ‘ranks’, it points out the ‘pecking order’, which could be awkward.
But again, IAN Japanese and have been removed from the culture for most of my life.
That’s never been the case. We can see “Iie” written on its own to mean “No”, but not so with “Ie”, (or “Ie-ie”). It is often used orally to negate something, usually taking the form of a phrasal interjection. It sounds like you interpreted that to mean “No” in Japanese is rendered differently depending on whether it’s written or spoken. I’m sure you’re aware by now, but that is not the claim being made.
Yes, but it’s what you wrote.
Again:
That post was misleading, especially to novices. That’s what I was pointing out.
If I’ understanding you correctly, you’re saying that gratitude is a sort of gift with it’s own value, and that expressing it with a “thank you” reduces or negates that value of the gift.
I’d equate this to giving somebody in America a gift and failing to convince them there’s no need to reciprocate.
In this context, it may be worth mentioning that Japanese people often respond to a small favour (such as refilling a cup) by saying sumimasen (excuse me) rather than arigatou (thank you).
I just want to say that even though I have been married to a Japanese person for many years, have Japanese friends and family and have lived in Japan, I have gained valuable learning and understanding of Japanese culture from this thread. どうもありがとうございます。