I just started Introduction to Japanese, and SWEET MILK OF SATAN, is it hard. None of the words seem to directly correspond to English words…it’s like, here’s a phrase that means this English phrase. And here’s another phrase with almost identical words that means something completely different. And here’s about 5 billion characters that you better memorize within two weeks, based on no similarities between similar sounds at all. Anyway, that’s the way it seems right now. (But, I do appreciate the relative simplicity of the number nomenclature; next to Spanish, it’s cake.)
OK, so that was my pointless rant. I have several questions, all of which should be very simple for the Japanese scholar.
First, how do you use the word “doomo”, by itself? What is the literal translation (just out of curiousity), when and why and how and to whom do you say it, what are the connotations, etc?
Second, how does “doomo sumimasen” differ from “sumimasen”, and “doomo arigatoo gozaimasu” from “arigatoo gozaimasu”? In what situations would I say these things?
And finally, just in case I ever have the urge to actually speak Japanese to a Japanese person, how do I say “I’m sorry, I don’t speak Japanese very well” or “I’m just starting to learn Japanese”? (These don’t have to be exact word-for-word translations; just so they make sense and get the point across.)
Remember, Japanese is all about levels of politeness. Knowing how you rank socially with the person you’re speaking with. All those domos and gozaimasus and everything all reflect on that. Welcome to fun times.
like Yuki said, it’s about politeness – doomo versus doomo arigatoo versus doomo arigatoo gozaimasu.
If you’re non-Japanese in appearance, don’t worry about it. Just say “doomo arigatoo” and nobody will mind.
“sumimasen” has the connotation of imposing upon someone. So if you ask a Japanese person to take your picture, you can thank them by saying “sumimasen.”
Sorry for the spoilers but you’re in for a big surprise in a few chapters.
This has been kind of covered but…
dômo: Thanks. Informal, light, friendly. arigatô: Thank you. Neutral. Use it in any situation where: a) the person didn’t especially go out of their way to help you or b) the person isn’t clearly above you socially. dômo arigatô: Thank you very much. Like above but with more emphasis. arigatô gozaimasu: Use it when you want to express some deference to the other person. dômo arigatô gozaimasu: Same as above, but with even more emphasis. dômo arigatô gozaimasu itsumo o-sewa ni natte orimasu, yoroshiku onegai itashimasu: Excessive.
You are, I hope, aware that Japanese isn’t a tonal language. Stress, especially compared to English, is distributed more or less evenly, so asking for “flow of intonation” isn’t particularly meaningful. Unless you’re asking where the long syllables are.
Well, from what I understand, while Japanese isn’t tonal in the way that, say, Chinese is, stress is indicated by a change of pitch (much like the concept of stress in English, but with a pitch change instead of the volume change that is used in English). However, I’m sure that not using stress correctly won’t make someone that difficult to understand.
Whatever stress there is in Japanese (i.e. “hashi - bridge” vs. “hashi - chopstick”) is so subtle as to be almost inaudible to the untrained ear and the begginer should focus on speaking in an even, monotonous, fashion. “Tone” varies greatly from region to region and is only secondary to context to tell homophones appart.
Not something you need to worry about at this stage.
Just to make it really clear: “doomo” basically just means “very,” or “a lot,” but only in politeness phrases, “doomo arigatoo” - thanks very much, or “doomo sumimasen,” “I’m very sorry.”
My japanese never quite became fluent, and I’ve lost quite a bit - but I’m amazed at what I still retain. It’s a wondrous adventure, very difficult but remarkably rewarding because only in studying a language as different as Japanese do really start to understand how little is actually essential to a language. We live perfectly well without levels of diction (wait 'til you learn the four completely words for “to go,” depending on the relative social statuses of the person doing the going and the person being gone to). Japanese lives perfectly well without a plural (one man two man eight million man), and without a true future tense (I go today, I go tomorrow). Enjoy!
This is very intresting. How are you learning? Tapes?
As a (retired) martial artist, I tried to learn the Japanese terms for movements and stances (i.e. “schodachi” is the “horse stance”)-a help for me was a martial arts dictionary. I could find the English word for the movement or technique and then find the Japanese translation. And a lot of “oss”, which seems to be a a multi purpose word for “Yes, I understand”, and “Yes, I agree”, and “OK”.
As a business move, I would love to speak conversational Japanese. The company that I work for is Japanese owned and I would love to be able to mix in, if the situation ever arose.
“Oss” or more correctly “osu” is strictly a martial arts term it’s not used at all in this sense outside the dojo.
In colloquial speech, “ossss” with the “s” stretched out quite a bit means something like “hey, man, howyadoin’?” It’s the most informal of salutations.
Oxymoron: Japanese actually does have a plural morpheme, -tachi, which is appended to the words pluralized. Of course, it’s not always used, nor always needed.
I was told many years ago that I should say, “Keiko onegaishimasu” to an upper rank, but just “Keiko” to a lower.
The guy who told me this was really drunk at the time, and I never had a chance to actually use it. Was he putting me on? He did that once before - fortunately someone warned me before I used a very coarse anatomical reference (I believe it was female-related).
I hear -tachi a lot for groups of people - it’s really handy, actually. Watashi-tachi - we, but also I’ve heard Sanzo-tachi (for anime examples) - Sanzo and his group, and Weiss-tachi - the Weiss group, oddly subtitled “Those of you Weiss”.
It would be nice to have such a thing in English - although the James-tachi and the Amanda-tachi might be the same group of people, the James-tachi is more likely to be going to the strip club.
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Say “sumimasen” to apologise for bumping into someone or to get a stranger’s attention if you want to ask them a question or a favour, or ask them to move out of your way. Say “shitsurei shimasu” if you are excusing yourself, for example you want to leave without making a fuss.
To thank somebody you can say “domo arigato gozaimashita” in a situation where you are dealing with strangers, and it will be okay in most situations - nobody will kill you for being too polite.
Try, “sumimasen ga, nihongo wa amari jozu dewa arimasen. Eigo ga dekimasu ka?”
Yes, it’s used quite often. As has been mentioned, it’s used to refer to a group of (generally) people. “Ra” is it’s rougher equivalent, but it’s only used with certain pronouns such as “boku”, “washi”, “kimi” or “omae”. Using “tachi” to refer to non-human entities, such as “dobutsu-tachi” (the animals), is acceptable though perhaps a bit too “cute” and child-like for many situations.
There are a few words that can be made plural by repetition. Appart from the rather common “hitobito” (people), these expressions, like “yamayama” (mountains), are somewhat litterary.
“Keiko” is a female given name, so the only possible meaning of “Keiko onegaishimasu” is “Keiko, please.” Half of the usages of “onegaishimasu” are virtually untranslatable into English, but generally it means “please”, “I ask a favour of you” and so on.
Oh and, Hibernicus, IMHO “dewa arimasen” reeks of textbook gaijin-speak. “Nihongo wa amari jôzu janai desu” is much more natural-sounding.
Personally I say: “Suman, nihongo wa yô shaberehen kedo na, Kansai-ben wa shabette harun’ dekka?”
Yes, it’s used quite often. As has been mentioned, it’s used to refer to a group of (generally) people. “Ra” is it’s rougher equivalent, but it’s only used with certain pronouns such as “boku”, “washi”, “kimi” or “omae”. Using “tachi” to refer to non-human entities, such as “dobutsu-tachi” (the animals), is acceptable though perhaps a bit too “cute” and child-like for many situations.
There are a few words that can be made plural by repetition. Appart from the rather common “hitobito” (people), these expressions, like “yamayama” (mountains), are somewhat litterary.
“Keiko” is a female given name, so the only possible meaning of “Keiko onegaishimasu” is “Keiko, please.” Half of the usages of “onegaishimasu” are virtually untranslatable into English, but generally it means “please”, “I ask a favour of you” and so on.
Oh and, Hibernicus, IMHO “dewa arimasen” reeks of textbook gaijin-speak. “Nihongo wa amari jôzu janai desu” is much more natural-sounding.
Personally I say: “Suman, nihongo wa yô shaberehen kedo na, Kansai-ben wa shabette harun’ dekka?”
