i dont think that lazy typing has anything to do with spoken or written language.
and thanks to boreland for giving me the ‘straight dope’ explination that i was sure of, but just needed someone to spell out for me.
i know that its virtually impossible for me to understand what the british hear when they hear an american talk, but i’m still curious as to whether british think they have accents (like i think that there are americans that have no accent). i have a hard time understanding british-english and i wonder if it’s the same for foreigners of american-english?
Ever since people have been spoken English, they have done so with different acccents. As a child I was able to recognise people from the neighbouring village as having a subtly different accent to my own. Neither of us spoke “purer” English than the other, just subtly different.
Accents change with time, as well as distance. Just watch a film from the 1950s to hear how much British, and I dare say American, accents have changed in just fifty years.
Given that American English spelling is older than British English spelling, perhaps a New England accent is, if not purer, then at least older than a modern English accent?
There is no such thing as an “accentless” version of any language. That is as daft as thinking that there is a “pure” version of any language. If there is any phonological variation among groups that speak a language, that language has accents. Some accent or accents may have a social advantage, but this has nothing at all to do with it being “correct” or “pure”. Instead, the political and social power of those who have that particular accent is then used to enforce the irrational and pig-ignorant prejudice that it is somehow “correct” or “pure”.
That being said, of course there are many accents in the USA.
I thought the dropping of the extraneous “u” in various words was an 18th-century adoption of the US? In what other ways does it predate current British spelling?
Anyway, in a way gerikel is right - s/he speaks the purest, most accent-free version of his/her English. It just happens to be entirely relative to the observer.
And gerikel, *Shrinking Violet was being affectionate, not mocking.
well, i can’t justify anyone wanting to speak like a southern american. i know people who wish they had english accents and such, but a southern drawl isn’t exactly what i would considered an attractive or cool thing to have. maybe that’s just because i’m from the south and feel that southerners are veiwed as less educated because of the way they speak. i mean, look at anna nicole smith for christ sakes!
But US announcerspeak is rhotic. There are a very few non-rhotic accents in the US, and they’re identified with certain regions (New England, New York, Georgia, Louisiana/Cajun), so they’re not part of the bland US announcerspeak.
gerikel, Northern Piper realizes that you know the rules of capitalization, punctuation, and spelling more than you let on. However, in this forum you’ll find people who have a broad range of knowledge and know how to communicate. You’ll be much better received here if you show that you’ve put some thought into your posts, by paying attention to things like these. You admit that it’s “lazy” - you’re taking shortcuts that make your posts harder to read, and make you look like someone we shouldn’t waste our time with. People here generally won’t grade your posts for perfect grammar, but you’ll get a better response if you’ll write in a way that’s respectful of others.
Well, here in California, our written accent includes the use of capital letters and the exclusion of the apostrophe as just an introduction for the 19th letter of the English alphabet. On the other hand, there is quite a variety, even within the State, of spoken accents.
I think the best appraisal of spoken accents was in one episode of Barney Miller. During the Carter administration, a couple of federal officials were visiting Miller’s station. One of the locals mentioned something about the visitors speaking with an accent. The response from the Southerner was, “Now it’s y’all who speak with an accent!”
To sum it up: everyone speaks with an accent.
As to this:
There’s ignorance, which can be eradicated, and then there’s that comment.
Probnably the purest ‘accent’ would be the London/east-midlands accent, as the as it was the dialect of Middle/Old English which most informed the modern language.
The accent formerly regarded as most ‘correct’ is the Home Counties/BBC accent, though I’d say that the so-called ‘mid-atlantic’ accent would be the most intelligible to speakers of all the different dialects of English.
The claim that US spelling is older is spuriuos as there was no correct spelling until the OED and US variants weren’t formalized until Webster’s.
Yep. No form of English can claim to be the “correct” or “pure” form any more than any point on the surface of a sphere can claim to be the center of that surface.
You can understand it by comparing your experience of listening to British speakers. There’s no fundamental difference in the experience of listening to an accent other than your own … only the particulars differ.
This is purely a matter of familiarity. The more British English you are exposed to, the better you can understand them.
Keep in mind, though, how many varieties of British English exist. I can understand you having trouble understanding Glaswegian, or Scouse, or Cockney – especially if lots of local slang was peppered in. But you can probably follow other forms of British English, such as BBC reports. How about in movies – if you saw Harry Potter, for example, could you follow the dialogue?
Well by English I mean American
and by purest I mean the way that I speak.
And re the post concerning Monty Python: Graham Chapman used to do the most dead-on East coast educated American you’d ever want to hear. I miss that guy.
Now I’m off to the accent sound archive to waste my day away in pure bliss. Accents are truly wonderful 'cause we all have them and they’s all different.
i’m assuming you think that comment is beyond ignorant?
well, you are from california, so i won’t expect you to be sympathetic, but as an arkansan, trust me, there’s nothing good about a southern accent. i moved here from st loius and, for years, was able to maintain a reasonably ‘accentless’ form of speak. when i went to college, there was no escaping it. i talk like a hick just as much as the next person. i have nearly lost my ability to pronounce a straight “i”, to say you all without running it into “ya’ll” and to recognize that i am using double negatives. (i.e. There ain’t nothin’ we can do about it.)
of course no all southern accents come with improper grammer, but it is the way of the south. some may think that nothing’s sweeter than a southern belle or sexier than the way Matthew McConaughey talks, but i think it’s jsut annoying. (and that coming from a southerner isn’t ignorance, it’s a very unbiased opinion of myself and others i live around)
It was made clear in the other thread that some non-Americans can identify regional US accents better than others.
If you check the dictionary you’ll see that an accent is a distinctive manner of expression; an individual’s distinctive or characteristic inflection, tone, or choice of words; or a way of speaking typical of a particular group of people and especially of the natives or residents of a region.That was from Merriam-Webster, btw.
Note that it mentioned “especially of the natives or residents of a region”, but it didn’t say “exculsively of the natives or residents of a region”.
So it ought to be clear that everybody speaks with some kind of accent, even newreaders. There really is no “pure” form of English and apart from people on the SDMB making such a claim for themselves (typically Californians it seems) I haven’t encountered claims to the contrary. Of course British people know we have accents – everybody does.
Gerikel, I am a fellow Southerner (born & raised in New Orleans, live in Mississippi), and I understand where you’re coming from. The Deep-South accent is often the mark of ridicule in American popular culture, and if you happen to be Southern, then the ridicule is all the more noticable.
But don’t let such perceptions define you personally, or make you ashamed of your way of speech. Anyone who meets you in person that assumes you are a dullard strictly because of your accent … well, that person is not worth your time.
And it’s not accents that make one cool or uncool … coolness (read: self-assurance) is an attribute of the individual. Someone who puts on a false accent – British or otherwise – can really make themselves look foolish. And they certainly won’t be fooling anyone who really speaks their accent du jour.
Hey, Anna Nicole Smith is a Texan, not a Southerner
In all seriousness, Deep-South accent != Texan accent.
people from st loius say 44 like " farty far"
trust me, i grew up there and my sister resides there still. i’ve said to her “listen to that accent!” and she thinks it’s just rediculous to think that she speaks any differently that i do, but she does. lots of people from missouri speak that way with the “o” sounding like some kind of “a”. the word “mom” impeticular is one i noticed her to have a heavy accent on. maam. i dont’ know. its just like most norhternes (we all know how to say wisconsin/chicago or “da bears” in a norhtern accent. this is similar to st louis)
‘Mid-Atlantic’ being most intelligible? I hope you’re not speaking of mid-atlantic USA (Carolina’s through Maryland). I’ve heard enough about ‘Warshingtin DC’ to last me a lifetime.
And FWIW when I was taking broadcasting in college I was instructed in speaking ‘generic midwest’ as my default accent. I still do it most of the time.
