That’s a value judgement, not a point in fact, though. If Shrinking Violet says she enjoys the sound of a Southern accent, she is making an equally valid value judgement, is she not?
All those attributes of Arkansan speech are OK. There’s no point in feeling embarassed about it.
It’s not at all improper grammar in situ. Proper grammar, descriptively speaking, encompasses far more than what you may be taught in English class. The rules of grammar actually change depending on your situation at any given place and time.
you are absolutely right. i am not claiming to be any less educated (although as i self-taught typer i don’t capitalize), but it is the misconception of many that southern = less educated (and it doesn’t help that many southern states are at the top of the list for illiteracy). you sound like a very well educated individual, but i am aware that there are steroetypes out there.
i have been made fun of (or maybe it’s just northerners being curious and making you repeat words). i am a little leary about moving out of the state for grad school and being excepted as an intelligent member of society. any comments on how the rest of the country views us from the south?
Not true. There is no spoken language possible without an accent. It’s all relative. Speech synthesizers are modelled on actual speakers and as such will reproduce to some extent the accent of the model.
I once tried a text-to-speech program that spoke with a very distinctive sub-continent accent.
To the op:
It depends on the level of English fluency of the non-American subjects and their level of contact with said American accents.
I’m not American and English isn’t my first language but I can kind of tell the difference between various New York accents. I am however completely baffled by a Georgian friend of mine who can identify fellow Georgians’ hometowns by their accents. It all sounds the same to me.
In this case, “Mid-Atlantic” refers to speech in which the attributes of British English and American English meet halfway. The clearest example of the Mid-Atlantic accent is the accent of the Frasier & Niles Crane characters on the TV show Frasier. Actors Nathan Lane (from Jersey City, NJ) and Robin Williams (grew up in SF Bay area) often adopt this accent. I’m having a harder time coming up with clear examples from the other side of the Atlantic, but I’ve heard Alfred Molina (Londoner), and Catherine Zeta-Jones (Welsh) put on a Mid-Atlantic accent from time to time.
When you run into nincompoops who feel their linguistic feces smell like rose petals, you should turn the tables. Demonstrate that their accent is as bizaare as anyone else’s. Next time a Mid-Westener asks you if you’d like some “pop”, for example, play dumb. Earnestly ask them what they are talking about.
Oh, it’s not that bad. You won’t have any problems. In academic settings, nearly everyone maintains the level of professionalism and common sense necessarily to evaluate a person beyond their accent.
Keep in mind that actor Kris Kristofferson (from Brownsville, TX) and fellow Arkansan Bill Clinton are both Rhodes Scholars. Consider also that neither publicly dropped their accents, despite the fact that Kristofferson attended Pomona College in California, and Clinton attended upper-crust Georgetown.
If I may hijack this thread slightly, how did American accents evolve? How did we go from a common source to a half-dozen radically variant accents within 200 years? Does it have anything to do with the accents that the colonists had–ie, did the Puritans that settled in New England have different accents from the whatevers that settled in Georgia?
For what it’s worth, my speech teachers (I studied acting in college) got around the issue by avoiding the term “accent.” As they explained it, this implies there is a “pure,” i.e. “unaccented,” version of the language, which of course is not the case.
Rather, they used the term “dialect” to identify the various permutations of pronunciation: Cockney dialect, Southern California dialect (which might be either valley or surfer), Melbourne dialect, Glaswegian dialect, and so forth. The intent was to reinforce the idea that the way you speak always informs where you’re from.
I mentioned this distinction in terminology in another thread, and somebody questioned it, so I’m not claiming it’s a formal linguistics rule or anything. It’s just the way it was taught to me by my acting instructors; it may well be idiosyncratic to their curriculum. It’s useful for understanding the concept, though.
And for what it’s worth, we spent a lot of time learning a “neutral American” dialect, similar to the “newscaster-speak” referenced previously. This is a created dialect; nobody actually speaks this way in real life. It blends together a bunch of different sounds (darker vowels from the Northeast, softened terminal R’s somewhat like North Carolina, bright middle vowels from the Midwest, and so forth),with the intent that the dialect can be used to deliver classical language, e.g. Shakespeare, in a non-inflected manner that doesn’t distract from the text. Whenever I use this offstage, in the real world, people find it very confusing; they notice right away that they can’t figure out where I’m from. Onstage, by contrast, it establishes a world that’s specific to itself without being anywhere in particular.
It may be a good toy to play with, but it’s a pretty unreliable tool for understanding what various UK accents actually sound like. The Birmingham woman, for instance, may very well be from that city but she’s had virtually all the local flavour “educated” out of her accent. She might just as well come from anywhere in England outside of London.
Of the examples available, the Oxfordshire one is closest to RP.
The reason why I directed the OP towards a dictionary definition is because I thought the problem may have been that s/he didn’t fully understand what an accent is.
If you listed to some guy (let’s call him Joe Newsman) speaking the same language as you, and you can tell that the way he talks isn’t the same as the way you talk, you may presume that it’s because you have an accent and he doesn’t. But that’s not true, you *both* have accents – they are the distinctive qualities of your voices that enable you to tell that you have different backgrounds. It may be that his accent doesn’t trace him to any particular city or region, but he still has an accent.
If you visit a voice coach and ask him to help you lose your accent he won’t be able to do it; he will only be able to help you replace it with another one that doesn’t connect you to your origins. So the resulting accent may not be a regional one but it wouldn’t be “pure” English and it wouldn’t be “no accent”, it would be a non-localised American accent.
As **bordelond** explained earlier, British people could go through the same process, removing the local flavour and replacing it with the standard version we call Received Pronunciation. That isn’t “pure” or “no accent” either, but the result is something a non-British person would still identify as being British.
In the same way, non-American English speakers will identify a US announcers’ accents as American, not “pure” or “accentless” English.
Perhaps it’s worth adding that certain versions of other languages are officially approved for broadcast purposes. I can’t provide cites, but I believe that the version of French spoken around Lyon is thought of as standard French and the Italian spoken in Tuscany is the preferred form of that language, so you’re likely to hear newsreaders using either mild Parisien French, mild Roman Italian or one of those regional variations on national TV in those countries. I’d be interested if other Dopers can confirm that or not.
Of course within the Midlands there are many different accents of which Brummie is just one.
I grew up 18 miles from Birmingham in Warwickshire and I always felt that I had no accent, much like the feeling expressed in the OP. I felt that what I said was neutral. However, it was only when I saw this page and heard england4.mp3 on it, did I realise that I have a stereotypical Warwickshire accent. An accent I had thought did not exist.
i do the same sort of thing myself. as an antagonist of my southern accent, when i catch myself speaking like a ‘hick’, i conscientious try to speak without any accent whatsoever. this is the sort of “pure” english i was questioning. and i suppose that every country has their own ‘pure english’ accent (if you will).
this is usually accomplished by enunciating every syllable as its phonetic symbol suggests. if we pronounced everything using the pronounciation key, following the key’s every rule…would this not be 'pure, anaccented" english? if the british used the same key, would our words not sound identical?
Assumptions are usually invalid. Try not to make them. Also, I’m telling you straight up that the comment is beneath ignorant.
Actually, I’m not from California. I just so happen to live here because I love the place.
My lack of sympathy has nothing to do with locale.
My Southern accent hasn’t exactly been a detriment. Maybe it’s not your accent, hey?
As noted above, by more than one poster, there’s no such thing as “accentless.”
Well, if the next person is a hick, then that’s to be expected. Take some time from your schedule and learn a tad about Linguistics. You don’t even have to attend a class. This particular message board has a heck of a lot of information about the subject.
Where I grew up, we usually spelled the contracted form of you all as y’all. But what did we ignorant hicks know, huh?
Try reading the thread and the answers given to you by those who actually know. At the moment, I’m just a Linguistics student and I already know that your appraisal here is far off the mark. The professional linguists who post here are sure to know exactly how far off it is.
standard american-english is just what i was inquiring about. so there is not one standard way to speak the english language that’s universal for all english speaking countries is there?
Hmm… So, we have Announcer-speak (does this have an official name?), which is a sort of smoothed average of the various American English accents. And we have Received Pronounciation, which is a similar average of the British English accents. Presumably, there exist similar average forms for the other countries where English is spoken. Would it not be possible to construct an overall average of the English spoken worldwide? And if this were done, which region’s speech would this most closely resemble?
The trouble is that there is no such standard key used by all speakers of English, which is why there is no one standard way to speak the language everywhere. I’m sure Monty could explain it if you hadn’t annoyed him with all that stuff about the south.
That’s not quite right. RP is not an average of British English, it’s a version of English associated with educated people from the Home Counties (i.e. those that surround London).
Officially sanctioned English as spoken in Australia and New Zealand sounds rather more British than the accent of the average guy working on a sheep station.
The trick is not constructing such an averaged-out English dialect. That’s very much possible. The trick is getting people with clout to use it publicly.
The closest thing to what you’re asking about it the aforementioned Mid-Atlantic dialect.
).