I don’t have to deal with “Christianity”, though. I have to deal with people. Like my father or my coworker who told me I was going to burn in hell when I told her I didn’t believe. It is just easier on me–psychologically–to believe that they don’t really believe that bullshit than it is for me to accept that they do. Because then I gotta deal with the implications of working with/being related to a psychopathic idiot.
Maybe I am just deluding myself just as much as I’m accusing them of doing to themselves. But I ain’t got no problem telling myself a story if it means being able to successfully deal with annoying-ass people, including the ones I love. As long as I don’t tell these people what I think about their “beliefs”, I’m not hurting them. I’m being a lot kinder to them than they are to me, actually.
This is close to my view. I have a hard time accepting that Christians actually and literally believe Jesus was born to a virgin, died and came back to life, etc. I do accept that people feel that there is “something greater out there” that they consider divine.
68% surveyed don’t believe the Bible is the “actual word of God to be taken literally.” They responded they interpret it as inspired word or fables/legend. 28% do, though, so there’s that, but that’s a hell of a lot smaller number than 86.
The 86% are just people who responded simply that, yes, they believe in (a) God.
e: Then again, not everyone surveyed was Christian. I’d like to see that poll, but I can’t be bothered.
Maybe so, at least in that particular sphere. I think we’re all capable of being spineless simpletons and monsters in various aspects of our lives. Some of these aspects are even central to our world views. But most of us have lots and lots of facets–good, bad, and irrational.
I can not answer to poll with any of the available answers. I personally believe in God as expressed in the Bible. It is not my place to even think about someone else’s relationship or belief in God. I will discuss my belief with anyone who asks, but I will not judge someone else’s belief at all. Even people who do believe in God are people and make mistakes. In addition, someone can believe in God and not believe he is to be worshiped (for example true Satanists may believe in God, they just believe worship of Satan is a better deal; others may feel differently)
I suppose it’s possible - 14% of atheists say they believe in God or a universal spirit, so I suppose some fraction of those who say they believe in God don’t mean they believe in God.
I am married to a pastor, brother-in-law to a Roman Catholic bishop, know some dozens of pastors, and rather more seminary students (no monks, though). I have never met any one of those who no longer believed but stuck with it out of practicality. The only pastor I ever knew who lost his faith left the ministry shortly thereafter, so he at least wasn’t trapped into anything.
I know there is periodically talk on the SDMB that Obama is “really” an atheist, in the teeth of everything he has ever said on the subject. That’s the trouble with atheists - they’ll believe anything.
Not only do I think that most people who claim to believe in God really don’t, but I also think that a significant number of people who identify as atheists reached that position as a result of a greater than normal degree of faith.
To clarify, I think that most people who describe themselves as theistic have a mental image of God as an old man somewhere between a dozen and a hundred feet tall, with a crystal ball that can see anywhere on Earth and a large supply of thunderbolts, hurricanes, earthquakes, and other natural disasters. But the more you learn about the Universe, the more you realize that such a being is nowhere near worthy of the title of “God”. In order for the notion of “God” to make any sense, God must be incomprehensibly greater than the popular conception of him. One is led, then, to the conclusion that the popular conception of God must be wrong, and from there it’s a short step to concluding that God doesn’t exist.
Wait…what? That last step is where you lose me. I did in fact go through exactly the process that you describe, coming to the conclusion that God is infinitely greater and more incomprehensible than Michelangelo’s rendition. I even wrote a piece for my (Reform Jewish) confirmation ceremony on that precise topic. But I went directly from “clearly God is far greater than the popular conception” to believing in a greater God. Recognizing that God isn’t an old man with a long beard was a key point in strengthening my faith, not abandoning it.
Trying to believe and actually believing often boil down to the same thing, over time.
But one difference in trying to believe is that you get doubts from time to time, you have some degree of cognitive dissonance, and you have to throw up various defense mechanisms.
So in some ways it might be more dangerous than simple belief, because to such a person, an atheist, for example, may represent a threat to them.
This is load of shit ! I don’t believe in god and I have very clean driving record , I was health aide and never stole a dime from my clients! I know people that believe in god and they were totally asshole ! Believing in god does not made a person a honest person!
For reasons I don’t completely understand there is social pressure to be religious. That is, there is not enough pressure to insist that you go to church (although in some communities there probably is a certain amount of pressure), but enough that you feel guilty if you say you don’t believe in God in response to a survey, and maybe you are even trying to fool yourself (cognitive dissonance and all that). Can you imagine an open atheist being elected president of the U.S.?
That’s the inverse of what was stated. You’re making an elementary logical error.
The claim is “If they really believed they were being watched by God, they would not commit crimes or sins.”
You say – correctly – “Many who do not believe they are being watched by God do not commit crimes or sins.”
Both statements can be true. There is no contradiction. Your emotional cry “This is a load of shit” is based on a misunderstanding of the forms of logical implications.
I think most of the people I know believe there is some kind of a god, but are unconvinced that his judgement is overly brutal. It seems an illogical leap to assume that the mere belief in intelligent design by itself compels one to behave as if there were a literal hell as described by the inquisitors. They are two separate questions, and there is plenty of wiggle room in between.
I personally am a believer, who was an atheist until age 23 and then converted. I also think that the great majority of professed Christian believers, have thought about religious topics a great deal, and have chosen to believe. I base this primarily on the interactions that I have had with a great many people during my lifetime. I have spoken with many Christians in many churches in many parts of the country, and around the world if we include online interactions. And the result of that is that I rarely encounter any adult Christian who has not thought about it deeply. Nor do I have any reason to doubt the same is true for followers of other religions.
I hate onions. I mean, I really hate them. They are the most disgusting food that exists in the universe. I loathe them with a deep passion. In fact, they are so utterly vile, that I cannot imagine anyon**e truly liking onions. I think everyone who says they like or love onions is just lying and only pretending they like it…for…whatever reason. Maybe because they think onion-loving is the hip, “in” thing or maybe because they hear their friends saying they like them and want to not appear to be the outsider…
…but whatever the reason, it can’t be true. Onions are so putrid, that it’s not possible for anyone to really be telling the truth when they say they like them.
If all of that above was really what I thought and I said so on this board, I’d be laughed off of it and probably be mocked endlessly forever after. There would be an infinite stream of users just waiting in line to tell me how wrong I am. Yet that’s really kind of like what the last poll option is saying. You 41 folks who voted for it: Stop thinking you “know” that many believers have to be really lying to themselves or secretly don’t believe.
Because it’s as simple as this: A true believer will really believe, 100 percent and will choose the first one and every single one of them will answer the same way that I am and feel the same way I do if they really are a true believer. If they are anything less than that or have doubts, then they aren’t really a believer and should be choosing either the “I’m not sure, but I believe the others believe it” or “I’m an atheist, but I believe the others believe it”.
But the “I’m unsure/atheist and I think many others are lying about it” option? Pointless. How arrogant does a person have to be to think that just because they don’t believe in something or dislike something that everyone else has to secretly be disliking or unbelieving it too? If a person is saying they believe in God, I have no reason to doubt them.
It depends what we mean by thought about it deeply.
Most theists I meet have studied plenty of theology, but rarely much philosophy.
There’s not much of an attempt to objectively think about whether they should believe or not.
I’ve met Christians who react oddly when I’ve told them I’m an atheist, they basically said that was impossible and that deep down I really do believe in God.
I was raised Catholic but stopped believing in God in middle school, I just looked at the world around me and didn’t see any evidence that God was really necessary to make sense of the world, and realized that the Bible is just a book written by men. I’m not the cliché militant atheist that a lot of religious people picture in their mind. I live in the South and it seems unless I say otherwise most people just assume that I am a Christian.
I don’t really bring up the topic of religion unless someone else does. My Mom knows I’m an atheist and I know it bothers her a lot because she is a devout Catholic, but there have been social situations when I just went along with the flow, such as Thanksgiving at my Grandmother’s house or something I bow my head just like everyone else during the prayer because to me its just an empty gesture and I don’t want to upset the old lady and cause an argument, its just not worth getting into, we’re not going to change each other’s mind and there won’t be a genuine intellectual debate about the topic so why even bother?
I find that most religious debates never go anywhere and just devolve into yelling and ridiculous statements, like the time I was in the Army and stuck on staff duty with a very religious sergeant and he said that rainbows were proof of God’s existence.
I find that a lot of people are religious only to the extent of saying they believe in God, but they don’t attend services, don’t apply the principles in the way they live their life, there is a lot of hypocrisy out there, but it doesn’t bother me until it gets to the point of insanity like refusing blood transfusions and stuff like that.
