Do "and" and commas mix?

Factual Questions
1

I’m torn! I recall when learning rudimentary grammatical skills in elementary school that one never uses a comma before the word “and” (this memory may or may not be an accurate reflection of what actually happened, but that’s what I recall).

I have since learned that a comma is okay to use when the “and” is the last in a series of objects (e.g. the car, the boat, and the tv), though it works without it as well. However, I’m curious as to which method is more acceptable?

Also, I’ve seen rather extensive usage of the word “and” when it merely acts as a conjunction between two clauses. Is that proper usage?

2

The only way I ever remember learning it is the second way you describe, where the last item gets a comma and an and. But grammar schools nowadays (and even when I was attending them,) are notorious for not really teaching that much grammar anymore.

3

[QUOTE=Red Barchetta]
I’m torn! I recall when learning rudimentary grammatical skills in elementary school that one never uses a comma before the word “and” (this memory may or may not be an accurate reflection of what actually happened, but that’s what I recall).

I have since learned that a comma is okay to use when the “and” is the last in a series of objects (e.g. the car, the boat, and the tv), though it works without it as well. However, I’m curious as to which method is more acceptable?

Also, I’ve seen rather extensive usage of the word “and” when it merely acts as a conjunction between two clauses. Is that proper usage?
[/QUOTE]

Lots of comma rules, but I happen to like the serial comma (as in your example in the second paragraph). The method that’s more acceptable depends on what kind of writing you’re doing and what stylebook you’re using. A great many publishers, including the one I work for, use the Chicago Manual of Style, which recommends using the serial comma. For some reason I think the AP stylebook recommended against it, but I really don’t remember. There are situations where using it makes things much clearer than not.

The Chicago Manual’s index has almost a whole column devoted to references to the comma–“with adjectives preceding nouns,” “with clauses: dependent…; independent…; relative (restrictive and nonrestrictive),” “with compound predicate,” and so on. Even then it uses a lot of qualifying language. “When a noun is preceded by two more more adjectives that could, without affecting the meaning, be joined by and, the adjectives are normally separated by commas. But…”

This might be what you’re looking for on phrases joined with and:

“When independent clauses are joined by and, but, or *so, * or any other conjunction, a comma usually precedes the conjunction. If the clauses are very short and closely connected, the comma may be omitted.” (Chicago Manual of Style 6.32, p. 248) (Note again the use of qualifyers: usually and may be.)

“Everyone present was startled by the news, and one main fainted.”
“Timothy played the guitar and Betty sang.”

4

A comma precedes “and” when joining two independent clauses.

For example:

He went to the store and bought some bread.

but,

He went to the store, and he bought some bread.

If what is on the other side of the “and” can stand alone as a complete sentence, the comma belongs before the “and.” With short clauses, you can sometimes omit the comma.

The serial comma is optional. Most literary stylebooks prefer the use of the serial comma before “and” in the last item of a sentence. Some stylebooks (like the Associated Press Stylebook) omit the final comma in a series. Since I used to work in journalism and mostly read newspapers and periodicals that follow AP style, I’m most used to not seeing the final comma in a series, although I prefer including the serial comma in my own writing.

5

It’s going to depend on your style sheet. American Psychological Association style calls for a serial comma before “and”: “Faith, hope, and charity”; “guns, germs, and steel.”

6

I prefer using the “Oxford” comma, as I’ve heard it called, but some people loathe it. It really doesn’t matter unless you’re writing for a living - then you have to conform to the institution you’re writing for.

7

I strongly prefer the serial comma. It sometimes provides additional clarity and–so far as I can tell–never detracts from it. As others have pointed out, stylebooks differ on this subject, so if you’re working for an organization that has an official stylistic guide, you may be stuck with one style or the other.

In the absence of an enforced style, I aim for clarity first, elegance second, and anything else a poor third.

8

Simply put – half a century ago there was a tendency to claim it was “logical” to omit the comma following the penultimate item in a series, as the “and” took its place. This is the same sort of logic that criticized ending a sentence with a preposition and splitting an infinitive.

Today, the strong tendency among style experts outside journalism is to recommend the use of the “serial comma.” Within journalism, where text space may be at a premium, good style advice is much more mixed.

9

The usage is simple:

Most style guides prefer the serial comma. The best example of why was in the apocryphal book dedication, “I wish to thank my parents, Ayn Rand and God.”

However, newspaper style guides avoid it. This is a remnant from the hot type days, but it’s still the usage in most newspapers.

The official rule is “use one or the other, but be consistent.”

10

[QUOTE=RealityChuck]
The usage is simple:

Most style guides prefer the serial comma. The best example of why was in the apocryphal book dedication, “I wish to thank my parents, Ayn Rand and God.”

However, newspaper style guides avoid it. This is a remnant from the hot type days, but it’s still the usage in most newspapers.

The official rule is “use one or the other, but be consistent.”
[/QUOTE]
This sums it up quite well. Here is a summary of past discussions on the topic on this forum, which have been numerous.

11

The AP stylebook says not to use a serial comma.

“The American flag is red, white and blue.” Not “The American flag is red, white, and blue.”

Robin

12

[QUOTE=MsRobyn]
The AP stylebook says not to use a serial comma.

“The American flag is red, white and blue.” Not “The American flag is red, white, and blue.”

Robin
[/QUOTE]

100% correct. And the AP stylebook is, unsurprisingly, put out by the Associated Press, and guides the practice in journalism. See Reality Chuck’s and my comments above.

Hilarity N. Suze notes the Chicago Manual of Style, which governs academic writing, as preferring the serial comma.

The only universally right rule is, Be consistent. The correct rule is, use whatever standard your reviewer (editor, professor, whoever) has accepted. And if he/she doesn’t have a stated standard, or doesn’t exist, use what clarity and elegance call for.

13

[QUOTE=Polycarp]
100% correct. And the AP stylebook is, unsurprisingly, put out by the Associated Press, and guides the practice in journalism. See Reality Chuck’s and my comments above.

[/QUOTE]

What am I, chopped liver? Post #4, baby!

14

For those writing without the burden of a style manual, I’d like to weigh in against the serial comma. My reason isn’t “logical,” as Polycarp suggests, but rather that it more closely conforms to how the sentence would be read aloud. A comma suggests a pause. One does not normally pause verbally between the penultimate and last item in a series. So, I prefer not to use a comma before the “and.”

15

[QUOTE=PBear42]
One does not normally pause verbally between the penultimate and last item in a series. So, I prefer not to use a comma before the “and.”
[/QUOTE]

You might want to narrow that generalization a bit. I, for one, most certainly pause between the penultimate item and the conjunction. To the best of my recollection, most of the people I speak with do so as well. Perhaps this is a regional variation?

If you prefer that style, and it more closely matches the way you actually speak, you’re certainly free to use it. I would suggest that you watch for ambiguities in anything you write for publication, so that you can recast to avoid them. I would not expect it to come up all that often, though.