Do animals feel shame?

I think you could do that to a human child easily, provided you took very good care of the child. Also, don’t teenagers basically do this at college? They get kicked out of high school (one family) and end up going to strange place where they encounter other people, many of whom they bond strongly to. Dogs are pack animals. If the new pack is better than the old, of course they are going to go with it!

Personally, I dislike it when people ask “Do animals x?” It forgets that we are animals too and that there are sooo many different species. FWIW, I think the capuchins I study feel shame. In order to feel shame, I imagine an individual in a species needs to have an identity of self. That is, an understanding that an action they did has anger/annoyed another individual and they themselves are guilty of said action. I don’t believe that dogs have this capacity based on what I understand about their reasoning skills.

An example of this in my primates would be a low-ranking male acting all tough and bravado when the high-ranking males are away. The low-ranking male will sometimes, upon finding himself alone, puff himself up, act all aggressive around the ladies, and generally be a nuisance. Then, if he thinks he’s going to be caught in the act, he’ll immediately knock it off and slink off to the edge of the group to avoid being ‘punished’.

No, because they are not Catholics.
Next question.

:smiley:

I believe that Ambrose Bierce once said that
Man is the only animal that blushes. Or needs to.

My cat Moose certainly felt humiliation, if not shame. For a stray cat, he was remarkably well-behaved and we never had to yell at him or correct him at all…until the Chrismas tree came in the house. Then both he and our girl cat, Muffin, tried to climb it. We had a squirt gun handy for this situation, and squirted Muffin…she just sat there getting wet, giving us a disdainful look. But Moose, when we squirted him?He hightailed it into the bedroom, where he hid under the bed for two solid days! Two! He wouldn’t come out for anything! And when he did come out, he refused to go anywhere near the treeagain!

I don’t see how it’s anything more than speculation that animals don’t have self awareness. When closely observed, they give every indication of self awareness and emotion that the average human being does, except for language. And a human being telling me he’s self-aware might be lying, or deluded.

It’s possible nature has set up two entirely different systems for emotion and expression – one for humans, requiring self-awareness, and one for animals, which closely mimics it without requiring self awareness. But parsimony and the lesson Copernicus taught us (that imagining we are unique in the universe is usually an illusion) argue against this dual setup.

A child would forget his home after a week? College students stop loving their families when they go to college?

In order to feel shame you need to understand the difference between right and wrong, which in turn requires a moral code. Just because I angered someone doesn’t mean I’m ashamed of it, nor does the fact that I behave submissively or attempt to make amends. I might just want to defuse the anger. If the capuchin understood shame he would know he had done wrong without having to be told.

How did Copernicus teach us that?

More recently, the principle is generalised to the relativistic concept that humans are not privileged observers of the universe.

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It it was a kid less than about 5 or 6 YES.

Maybe it knows that you’re going to be pissed at it. Which isn’t necessarily to say that it feels guilty/ashamed. Just that it’s trying to be submissive because it knows you’re going to get pissed and punish it. I’d separate guilt/shame from fear of punishment because you can feel guilt even when no one knows you’ve done anything wrong. It’s more internalized.

And humans are totally different?

Either its shame or something like shame/guilt or its sophisticated reasoning skills.