Do animals understand the concept of death?

[Fotheringay-Phipps]

Meaning can/do they distinguish between something which is dead and something which hasn’t moved for a while? If so, on what basis?

ETA: I appreciate that some animals (e.g. vultures IIRC) are attracted to putrefaction and the like. But I think that’s still not the same as understanding death.

[Procrustus]

Elephants certainly seem to understand something.

cite

George Wittemyer, a Colorado State University conservation biologist who has been studying elephants at the Samburu Reserve since 1997, says elephants have “a fascination with death” that is difficult to interpret.

“Elephants have respect for their dead, but their interaction with their dead is not something we fully understand,” says Wittemyer, who also heads Save the Elephants’ scientific board.

[Whack-a-Mole]

@Procrustus

Elephants certainly seem to understand something.

cite

Yeah…elephants are certainly weird when it comes to their dead (as compared to other animals):

A researcher once played a recording of an elephant who had died. The sound was coming from a speaker hidden in a thicket. The family went wild calling, looking all around. The dead elephant’s daughter called for days afterward. The researchers never again did such a thing.

SOURCE: The Depths of Animal Grief | NOVA | PBS

Chimpanzees have also been witnessed to express profound grief over the passing of a loved one:

In a zoo in Philadelphia in the 1870s lived two inseparable chimpanzees. “After the death of the female,” the keeper wrote, “the remaining one made many attempts to rouse her, and when he found this to be impossible his rage and grief were painful to witness…The ordinary yell of rage…finally changed to a cry which the keeper of the animals assures me he had never heard before…hah-ah-ah-ah-ah, uttered somewhat under the breath, and with a plaintive sound like a moan…He cried for the rest of the day. The day following, he sat still most of the time and moaned continuously.”

SOURCE: The Depths of Animal Grief | NOVA | PBS

IIRC a saw a story about a chimp in the wild whose mother died and refused to leave her body. The chimp stayed with her, refusing to eat or do anything and also died by what can only be described as a broken heart.

Also, from the link above, dolphins and orcas have been seen pushing dead babies around refusing to abandon them.

[Fotheringay-Phipps]

@Whack-a-Mole

Also, from the link above, dolphins and orcas have been seen pushing dead babies around refusing to abandon them.

You could argue this very behavior shows that they don’t understand that the babies are dead.

[Whack-a-Mole]

@Fotheringay-Phipps

You could argue this very behavior shows that they don’t understand that the babies are dead.

You could but their high intelligence otherwise is well documented. I would be surprised if they had no clue what “dead” was and just pushed the bodies around because they thought they still had a living child.

[Profound_Gibberish]

We have a multi-dog and cat household and have had to put down several elderly animals with a home vet. We always let the other dogs and cats see the body. There is definitely an understanding of death. Some of the dogs and cats even sat with the body awhile, while our one very sensitive cat brushed his tail along the body. We believe that allowing the animals to see the body helps with their closure.

[John_Mace]

@Whack-a-Mole

You could but their high intelligence otherwise is well documented. I would be surprised if they had no clue what “dead” was and just pushed the bodies around because they thought they still had a living child.

Actually, that last explanation is the more parsimonious one. Chimps, for example, will drag around a dead baby for a day or two, and the suddenly just let it go as if dropping a leaf or a rock. Many animals seem to understand “something not normal”, but the idea that they understand death is not clear at all.

[PlumBob]

I had two dogs that were litter mates. One died, they were together for 13 years. I let the other see the body, nothing, she walked past like it was a rock.
I was surprised!

[Sage_Rat]

Playing possum must have some value for it to have evolved in opossums.

[Sage_Rat]

Overall, I suspect that this one is going to vary widely by species and, in some instances, by individual. Some humans have had a hard time registering death.

[Whack-a-Mole]

@John_Mace

Actually, that last explanation is the more parsimonious one. Chimps, for example, will drag around a dead baby for a day or two, and the suddenly just let it go as if dropping a leaf or a rock. Many animals seem to understand “something not normal”, but the idea that they understand death is not clear at all.

Maybe but as shown above there are examples of behavior far out of the norm when dealing with an animal they cared for.

Indeed, since this behavior is hit and miss I suspect it is more as Sage Rat suggests. Sometimes they care, sometimes they don’t. If it was a programmed response from mother nature we’d see it all the time but we don’t.

And this should not be surprising. They are highly intelligent (as non-humans go), big brained and deeply social animals.

Also:

Nevertheless, several species of intelligent, social animals, such as gorillas, chimps and elephants can display particular behaviours when an animal dies – behaviours which some have interpreted as akin to mourning. Taken together with a growing number of reports of cetaceans interacting with dead animals and the discovery that they have specialised neurons linked to empathy and intuition, the Greek study suggests dolphins may have a complex – and even sophisticated – reaction to death.

SOURCE: https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21128283-700-death-in-dolphins-do-they-understand-they-are-mortal/

So, while not settled science, there seems to be some indication that they possess the same brain structures humans do which are thought to be associated with emotional responses including grief.

As to dropping them like a rock and moving on what else are they supposed to do? I related one instance where a chimp stayed and died with its dead mother but in most cases the animal will eventually need to get on with living. Lacking any burial ceremonies there is not much else to do but drop it like a rock and move on at some point.

[Fotheringay-Phipps]

@Sage_Rat

Playing possum must have some value for it to have evolved in opossums.

Many predators are programmed to attack things that move. (I would think this very fact suggests that these predators don’t readily recognize life and death independently of motion.)

[wguy123]

@PlumBob

I had two dogs that were litter mates. One died, they were together for 13 years. I let the other see the body, nothing, she walked past like it was a rock.
I was surprised!

I’ve almost always had two dogs at a time and I’ve always let the living be in the room when the older/sick dog was euthanized. Out of three times this has happened, only one dog seemed to even notice. The other two were like your experience. And these were all dog pairs that had been together for at least several years and best buds.

I have noticed separation depression and other behavior that leads me to believe they miss their friend later. My current dog is now on antidepressants because his behavior changed so much. His older friend must’ve helped to keep the crazy at bay.

[Jim_B]

I am surprised no one has added a link to one of my threads. I have addressed the subject numerous times.

Anyway, much of what I said has already been addressed. But to reiterate.

Definitely the elephant thing.

Also, as I once said, my dog Tiffany went into mourning when her best friend Sandy died of diabetic coma in 1988. As we carried her lifeless body away, Tiffany stared at the scene, with a devastated look on her face. And she didn’t wag her tail again for several days, clearly in mourning.

Also, I don’t know if I should even add this. But you know a kid we used to fry ants with magnifying lenses. And they certainly tried to run away in a panic, clearly running for their lives.

[Chronos]

Well, sure, most animals have some notion of danger, as something to flee from. That doesn’t mean they know anything about the consequences of danger.

And with domestic animals, we should also be aware of the “Clever Hans” effect. Dogs do definitely pick up emotional cues from their packmates (whether four or two-legged). So if one dog was sad shortly after another dog died, that might be because they’re mourning the other dog, or it might be that they’re sad because you’re sad.

[Whack-a-Mole]

@Chronos

And with domestic animals, we should also be aware of the “Clever Hans” effect. Dogs do definitely pick up emotional cues from their packmates (whether four or two-legged). So if one dog was sad shortly after another dog died, that might be because they’re mourning the other dog, or it might be that they’re sad because you’re sad.

Animals certainly do react to their human’s emotional state and will be distressed if their human is distressed.

That said they can be sad of their own accord. Maybe it is anecdotal evidence but there is a lot of it. It is no problem to do a quick Google search to find examples of an animal grieving.

[A] recent study published in the journal Animals attempts to catalog the behaviors of dogs and cats when they suffer the loss of an animal housemate, and what the study found suggests that Daisy’s behavior is not atypical. The study was conducted by a team of researchers headed by Jessica Walker of the New Zealand Companion Animal Counsel who collected data pertaining to 159 dogs and 152 cats. The data consisted of questionnaire responses from pet owners in New Zealand and Australia who owned multiple pets at the same time and had lost one within the past five years. The pet owners were asked to recall how the surviving pet responded to the disappearance of their companion.

One of the most common behaviors observed in dogs was to continually check the places where their lost housemate normally napped or rested. This behavior was found in 60 percent of the dogs (regardless of whether the lost companion was a dog or a cat) and 63 percent of the cats. Virtually the same proportion of surviving pets demanded more affection or became clingy and needy (61 percent of dogs and 62 percent of cats). Increases in whining and whimpering was less frequent, occurring 27 percent of the time in dogs. However, increased vocalizing was much more common in cats (43 percent). Roughly one in three dogs and cats reduced the amount of food they ate and the speed in which they ate it (35 percent in dogs and 31 percent in cats). Dogs were more likely to increase the amount of time that they spent sleeping (34 percent), which was less likely in cats (20 percent). The interesting thing is that these are all behaviors one might observe in a young human child experiencing grief and stress because of the loss of a human family member.

SOURCE: Do Dogs Grieve Over the Loss of an Animal Companion? | Psychology Today

[Fotheringay-Phipps]

@Whack-a-Mole

That said they can be sad of their own accord. Maybe it is anecdotal evidence but there is a lot of it. It is no problem to do a quick Google search to find examples of an animal grieving.

What does loss of a housemate have to do with the concept of death?

These animals would presumably “grieve” the same way if their housemate moved away. They miss their companions. I don’t see how that’s any indication at all that they understand that their companion is dead.

[Whack-a-Mole]

@Fotheringay-Phipps

What does loss of a housemate have to do with the concept of death?

These animals would presumably “grieve” the same way if their housemate moved away. They miss their companions. I don’t see how that’s any indication at all that they understand that their companion is dead.

You could well be right when it comes to dogs. They just miss their companion.

Also, it is hard to understand how an animal conceptualizes things when they do not have words. They just know when Babar keels over and stops moving it is upsetting.

[Sage_Rat]

@Fotheringay-Phipps

Many predators are programmed to attack things that move. (I would think this very fact suggests that these predators don’t readily recognize life and death independently of motion.)

True, and “freezing” is an evolved response to fear in some animals (e.g., deer). What opposum do, however, is pretty clearly a step up from that.

[John_Mace]

@Jim_B

I am surprised no one has added a link to one of my threads. I have addressed the subject numerous times.

Since you didn’t link to any of those threads, why would you surprised that no one else did?