Do astrologers actually believe what they preach?

Great Debates
321

[QUOTE=glee]
Um, is the answer to the second question that you not only need the precise birthdate, but also to discuss things with the subject?
[/QUOTE]
In posts #301 and #302 Antinor01 and elucidator each answered this question, at least for the simplest case, with the answer: “Birthdate, time, location”.

It can also been inferred that discussing with the subject makes for a more fun experience for the astrologer. (Which isn’t surprising, really.) Apparently this also makes the results of the reading more accurate, presumably through a combination of cold reading (conscious or unconscious) and explicitly clarifying the generalities with details supplied by the subject. Of course, this stuff sounds like cheating to me, and not part of the astrology itself as such, which (from the sound of it) is strictly calculable and unvarying based on the aforementioned birthdate, time, and location.

[QUOTE=glee]
And what was the answer to the fourth question?
[/QUOTE]
Based on the four readings Czarcasm posted, absolutely not; all four seem to be mixing in various other astrological-ish sources, including in one case astrological palmistry. ( :dubious: ) Also, elicidator has many times mentioned that there is a relatively low amount of agreement amongst the whole of astrologers as a whole about how this stuff is to be done.

(And if that wasn’t enough, wiki lists three different sets of dates for what a (for example) “Taurus” is: Tropical: April 21 - May 21, Sidereal: May 15 - June 16, and Solar: May 14 - June 19. So clearly there are different systems in effect! (Under two of which, I’m not even a taurus like I thought I was, but am instead a whatever-comes-before-a-taurus. Who knew.)

I found the first to be the most analytical, and it seemed to make some rather confirmable predictions, especially if you deliberately ran it for prior dates and checked against your history.

The second was creepy and scary and evil-seeming; I didn’t dwell on it.

The third was corrupted with palmistry, with that mixed in over the top of the ‘normal’ astrology that I couldn’t tell what was what; it did make some fairly specific testable claims however.

And the fourth was like, way trippy and let the flowers sing and crystals chime, man. :slight_smile: (And it didn’t seem overly specific, either, though I might just be misunderstanding it, as it was rather incomprehensible to me for some reason.)

I wonder if any of these resemble the kind of stuff the astrologers in this thread are familiar with, if any of them do?

322

[QUOTE=Pixilated]
As I have mentioned in previous posts, I casually practice astrology. I have done charts up for people I do not know, as well as people I do know. I do not follow or believe in the published “horror-scopes”. However, I do get a kick out of the “astro-slams” =)

…

So… anyone want a chart done??? :smiley:
[/QUOTE]

Would you do a reading for me if I started a new thread?

323

[QUOTE=glee]
My purpose is to learn about astrology. Here is a subject which is strongly supported by many, hugely profitable for a few well-known astrologers ($4 million a year - leaders of countries don’t earn that much!) and yet never taught in any public school.
I’d like to know (for example):

  • what things can astrology tell you?
  • how much information does an astrologer need?
  • how do astrologers learn to do it?
  • is there agreement between astrologers on what methods to use?
  • what does a reading look like?

If things went well (and posters stayed polite), I would then be interested in seeing if the astrologers and I could agree some sort of test to see how well astrology performs in one case (I would offer myself as a subject in the thread.)
[/QUOTE]
As noted, I think the questions have pretty much been answered.

(My take:

  1.  a.Things you already know, including things you don't know you know

    b. How to look at things differently
    c. How you might integrate/reconcile contradictory or conflicting elements in your life

  2. See #4

  3. Some take classes. I read prolifically (books, magazines, web).

  4. Hell, no.

  5. See #4; i.e., they can look very different, depending.)

I’d join a thread for the interest of talking about process but I am not interested in a “test” of any kind, because it sounds too much like trying to prove something and I don’t think that can be done.

324

[QUOTE=begbert2]
In posts #301 and #302 Antinor01 and elucidator each answered this question, at least for the simplest case, with the answer: “Birthdate, time, location”.

[/quote]

Yet in post #18 Antinor posted “Year of birth, date, time, location and so on are included.”

[QUOTE=begbert2]

It can also been inferred that discussing with the subject makes for a more fun experience for the astrologer. (Which isn’t surprising, really.) Apparently this also makes the results of the reading more accurate, presumably through a combination of cold reading (conscious or unconscious) and explicitly clarifying the generalities with details supplied by the subject. Of course, this stuff sounds like cheating to me, and not part of the astrology itself as such, which (from the sound of it) is strictly calculable and unvarying based on the aforementioned birthdate, time, and location.

[/quote]

If we do set up my proposed thread, we could publish any questions that the astrologers want to ask me (and give my replies).
This would let us all see the process.

325

[QUOTE=SparrowHawk]
As noted, I think the questions have pretty much been answered.

(My take:

  1.  a.Things you already know, including things you don't know you know

    b. How to look at things differently
    c. How you might integrate/reconcile contradictory or conflicting elements in your life

  2. See #4

  3. Some take classes. I read prolifically (books, magazines, web).

  4. Hell, no.

  5. See #4; i.e., they can look very different, depending.)

I’d join a thread for the interest of talking about process but I am not interested in a “test” of any kind, because it sounds too much like trying to prove something and I don’t think that can be done.
[/QUOTE]

OK, would you do a reading of me in the new thread? :cool:

326

[QUOTE=glee]
OK, would you do a reading of me in the new thread? :cool:
[/QUOTE]
For entertainment purposes only. :cool:

[QUOTE=Czarcasm]
I wouldn’t mind getting reactions to the four examples I gave in post #306.
[/QUOTE]
They’re very different and none is a straight astrological interpretation of a natal chart.

The first is an Horary chart, that is, it’s a prediction based on a question asked at a particular time. The calculations that make the first chart are the time and place of the question, which is compared with the birth chart of the person asking the question. It has pretty firm and specific predictions because that is its purpose.

The second is a “spiritual path” reading. It’s apparently combined with info from books on talismans and guardian angels and focuses on only three houses. It’s not something I’ve seen before; sort of obscure and esoteric, but nothing “evil” about it. I like the accompanying art.

The first two both use a chart form that I’ve only seen in Vedic Astrology. Most Western astrologers use a natal wheel.

The third is a Vedic interpretation combined with palmistry. Vedic astrology has marked differences from Western astrology and the palmistry makes a weird kind of bastard stepchild.

The fourth is a Chakra reading for Madonna which, like the third, adds another layer of symbolism. It is in a form I’m most familiar with, each planet and its symbolism being consecutively dealt with in relation to house and aspects with other planets.

327

[QUOTE=SparrowHawk]
The first is an Horary chart, that is, it’s a prediction based on a question asked at a particular time. The calculations that make the first chart are the time and place of the question, which is compared with the birth chart of the person asking the question. It has pretty firm and specific predictions because that is its purpose.
[/QUOTE]
Does that mean that any question asked at a specific date and time would have the same charted results using this method?

[QUOTE=SparrowHawk]
The second is a “spiritual path” reading. It’s apparently combined with info from books on talismans and guardian angels and focuses on only three houses. It’s not something I’ve seen before; sort of obscure and esoteric, but nothing “evil” about it. I like the accompanying art.
[/QUOTE]
Hey, you got your reaction to things, and I’ve got mine; that thing creeped me out. Especially that last picture (though I was already creeped out before seeing it).

328

[QUOTE=begbert2]
Does that mean that any question asked at a specific date and time would have the same charted results using this method?
[/quote]
Date, time and location, yes. It’s a snapshot of the planetary positions of the sky. The interpretation will vary with the question asked and how the stuff in the horary chart compares to the subject’s natal chart.

And you posted yours and I posted mine. Sorry if it came across as critical; it wasn’t meant to be anything but my take on it. Creep out as much as you like, I’ve no objection!

329

OK, I’ll start a thread in General Questions called ‘Astrology - some questions answered’.

Astrologers are welcome to do a reading of me and answer a few questions about their methods and training.

I will ask the Moderators to keep snarky comments out of the thread!

330

[QUOTE=glee]
Yet in post #18 Antinor posted “Year of birth, date, time, location and so on are included.”
[/QUOTE]
That was meant to include other things someone might want to do. Like if you want to do a reading that includes numerology, you would need the persons name.

For a basic, “This is where the planets were and here’s what that means” reading it would just be date, time and location.

331

[QUOTE=glee]
OK, I’ll start a thread in General Questions called ‘Astrology - some questions answered’.

Astrologers are welcome to do a reading of me and answer a few questions about their methods and training.

I will ask the Moderators to keep snarky comments out of the thread!
[/QUOTE]

I truly wish you the best of luck, but it seems that the success of an astrologer is in direct proportion to the amount of mystery and obfuscation put forth.