[QUOTE=Yumblie]
…the constellations themselves are just optical illusions, the stars in most constellations are actually nowhere near each other, they just look that way from our point of view…
[/QUOTE]
Yes. We know. Thanks again for the 10,000th repitition of the bleeding obvious.
(God, the stuff people tell me like its going to totally blow my mind…)
[QUOTE=elucidator]
(God, the stuff people tell me like its going to totally blow my mind…)
[/QUOTE]
Hey, hey Mr. Astrologer! Ya know, Pluto’s like, not even a PLANET anymore! What do you think of that, Mr. Fancypants? 
[QUOTE=elucidator]
Yes. We know. Thanks again for the 10,000th repitition of the bleeding obvious.
(God, the stuff people tell me like its going to totally blow my mind…)
[/QUOTE]
I wasn’t talking directly to you, but it’s good to know that you were already aware of that totally mind-blowing factoid. It may be a bit pretentious to assume it’s “bleeding obvious” though, as I could say the same thing about astrology being complete nonsense.
(Never mind. Not worth it. Deleted.)
[QUOTE=elucidator]
(Never mind. Not worth it. Deleted.)
[/QUOTE]
It would have been worth it, discussions of astrology versus astronomy never fail to entertain.
[QUOTE=Yumblie]
The thing is, the Earth itself exerts one thousand trillion times the gravitational force on us that the moon does, by nature of it being bigger and us standing right on top of it. Yet the Earth never factors into astrological predictions (I wonder if it would if someone were born on the moon?). The Earth is a celestial body too, isn’t it? Each of the planets seem to sit in equal astrological footing, but the magnitude of gravitational force from each planet is all over the place, from pretty-much-zero to almost-zero to as-close-to-zero-as-any-scientific-calculator-will-take-you.
The constellations themselves are just optical illusions, the stars in most constellations are actually nowhere near each other, they just look that way from our point of view. It seems rather arbitrary that collections of otherwise unrelated stars would gather together to exert some influence (that travels faster than light even!) over life here on some random planet.
[/QUOTE]
Oh, I know man, I was reaching for an astrological explanation that made some kind of cosmological sense…I don’t see any…
Well, since there are many astrologers in this thread, let me ask a question. It’s about scenario that for me is absolute proof that astrology is bogus:
Many children are born in hospitals. Some of these hospitals are big, and it’s not unseen that two children are born virtually simultaneously and in the same place - like in adjacent rooms. Yet, those children are later totally unlike each other - different characters, different temperaments, different fortunes, different life paths and different times of death. If astrology was true, you would think that they calculated charts would be identical and they would live twin lives. They do not. How astrologers explain that?
bolding mine
[QUOTE=lekatt]
He was about 36 when he made the prediction. He had never been sick a day in his life except for a cold now and then. He was full of life, fun to be around, and had a very large following. He made his living doing charts. He told me his chart looked really bad around his 40th birthday, but felt he could get through it.
[/quote]
[QUOTE=lekatt]
He didn’t, he died on his 40th birthday of a massive heart attack..
[/QUOTE]
So he didn’t predict his own death.
[QUOTE=Pixilated]
There will always be skeptics and those that are unwilling to keep an open mind (there are no such things as ghosts/spirits, astrology is bogus and as effective as virgin sacrifices, and while we’re at it - the world IS NOT ROUND!) :dubious:
[/QUOTE]
There is a huge difference between keeping an open mind and believing things despite overwhelmng evidence to the contrary or an utter lack of concrete supporting evidence.
[QUOTE=puppygod]
Many children are born in hospitals. Some of these hospitals are big, and it’s not unseen that two children are born virtually simultaneously and in the same place - like in adjacent rooms. Yet, those children are later totally unlike each other - different characters, different temperaments, different fortunes, different life paths and different times of death.
[/QUOTE]
Are they? I have quite a bit in common, temperamentally, with my Sag friends; even more in common with my Sag friend with a Moon in Aries. We’re not identical, no, because different children - even twins raised together - have different experiences to shape their lives. But all - yes, all - of my Sagittarius friends are more likely than my Virgo friends to begin projects and never finish them. We might be interested in different projects because we’ve been exposed to different areas of interest, but we all have difficulty with follow-through.
[QUOTE=puppygod]
Well, since there are many astrologers in this thread, let me ask a question. It’s about scenario that for me is absolute proof that astrology is bogus:
Many children are born in hospitals. Some of these hospitals are big, and it’s not unseen that two children are born virtually simultaneously and in the same place - like in adjacent rooms. Yet, those children are later totally unlike each other - different characters, different temperaments, different fortunes, different life paths and different times of death. If astrology was true, you would think that they calculated charts would be identical and they would live twin lives. They do not. How astrologers explain that?
[/QUOTE]
Wow! That is really interesting research! Please cite, if for no other reason so that I can find out who would spend a ton of money and employ a buttload of research staff, comb the records of thousands of hospitals, do a gazillion follow ups, apply psychological tests to all the sujbects, cross reference the results…all of this just to make me look silly!
Unless, of course, you’re bluffing.
[QUOTE=WhyNot]
Are they? I have quite a bit in common, temperamentally, with my Sag friends; even more in common with my Sag friend with a Moon in Aries. We’re not identical, no, because different children - even twins raised together - have different experiences to shape their lives. But all - yes, all - of my Sagittarius friends are more likely than my Virgo friends to begin projects and never finish them. We might be interested in different projects because we’ve been exposed to different areas of interest, but we all have difficulty with follow-through.
[/QUOTE]
I would like to gently suggest that while you have been comparing temperments with your friends, you may have been retaining what seems to match and forgetting what does not. Such a natural human characteristic is called Selective Thinking.
The Forer Effect needs to be considered here, also. “You are likely to begin projects but never finish them. But you are proud of the ones you do finish.” Does that fit you? Me? Uncle Andy? Of course it does! The fallacy is that it fits only you.
[QUOTE=Q.E.D.]
And yet, both are exactly equally valid.
This is, of course, completely wrong. Science is everything. Everything we know, everything we experience and everything that exists has the capacity to be explained by science.
[/QUOTE]
How atheist of you.
[QUOTE=Musicat]
I would like to gently suggest that while you have been comparing temperments with your friends, you may have been retaining what seems to match and forgetting what does not. Such a natural human characteristic is called Selective Thinking.
[/QUOTE]
Yes, I know you would.
Fits me. Fits my husband the Gemini. Does NOT fit my son the Capricorn, or my daughter the Aquarius (so far, she’s not quite 3, so give her some time) or my best friend Gina the quadruple Virgo (poor thing) or my friend Teri the Libra*. It’s well known in these parts that if you want research or inspiration, come to me and hubby; if you want something to get done, call Teri or Gina. Together, we make a really good team; separately, we’re pretty useless!
*Who, true to form, will waffle around weighing her options forever before making a decision, but once it’s made, that’s the end of it, and she’s on it like white on rice. Very unlike the Gemini husband (or my Gemini mother) who’s forever agonizing that he made the wrong choice.
This is how I use astrology - to gain insight about people I know personally, and tips on how to handle interpersonal relationships. Am I going to stick to the chart definition of a Virgo if I ever meet a flakey disorganized Virgo? No, I’ll get to know them as a person and not suggest they be treasurer of the company. But, before first meeting, I’m given a clue as to how to handle things if I know someone’s chart. Pisces? Oh, I have to tread carefully - the Sag bluntness and the Pisces sensitivity are a trainwreck waiting to happen. Cancer man? Oh, honey, sit back and prepare to be taken care of - he’s really *not *putting himself out cooking you dinner, rubbing your feet and moving furniture all at once. Just be careful - he might propose on your third date. Are there exceptions? Yeah. But the more signs in a person’s chart you account for and the more relationships between them (opposing, trine, etc.) and the more placement in houses you account for, the less exceptions I’ve found.
Bottom line: it’s fun. I don’t base major life decisions around it, I don’t spend lots of money on it. But boy, was it nice knowing at 29 years old that the chaos my life was in was perfectly normal and it would all settle down in a couple of years after that dreadful Saturn Return was over. And wouldn’tcha know it? It did. (And then I got to watch it happen to people younger than I.)
Space rocks determine our lives and personalities. For some reason I do not buy in. There are billions of them. How can you dismiss some and pick others as driving forces. It is illogical and stupid.
Spokesmen must believe. We have a couple thousand religions in the world and many do believe theirs is the true one. Programming those who are illogical has been proven to be easy.
[QUOTE=Cardinal]
How atheist of you.
[/QUOTE]
Well, duh.
[QUOTE=WhyNot]
This is how I use astrology - to gain insight about people I know personally, and tips on how to handle interpersonal relationships.
[/quote]
Then I would like to predict that, despite no good evidence that astrology can reliably provide such information and with absolutely no proven or detectable force behind it, you will continue to believe that it does what you claim and will continue to find “proof” to satisfy yourself.
[QUOTE=Musicat]
Then I would like to predict that, despite no good evidence that astrology can reliably provide such information and with absolutely no proven or detectable force behind it, you will continue to believe that it does what you claim and will continue to find “proof” to satisfy yourself.
[/QUOTE]
Well, until I come across some flakey Virgos or some cold Cancers, you’re right.
[QUOTE=elucidator]
Wow! That is really interesting research! Please cite, if for no other reason so that I can find out who would spend a ton of money and employ a buttload of research staff, comb the records of thousands of hospitals, do a gazillion follow ups, apply psychological tests to all the sujbects, cross reference the results…all of this just to make me look silly!
Unless, of course, you’re bluffing.
[/QUOTE]
Ever known any twins? Were they alike enough that a specific astrological prediction would apply to both of them? I’ve known 2 pairs, for one yes, the other no.
[QUOTE=Snarky_Kong]
Ever known any twins? Were they alike enough that a specific astrological prediction would apply to both of them? I’ve known 2 pairs, for one yes, the other no.
[/QUOTE]
Your going to have to phrase the question differently for me to give an answer, as I’ve noted above, I don’t have much truck with “predictions”. Maybe that’s only an unfortunate word choice, but I don’t want to talk about ducks if you really mean geese.
That said, what little I’ve seen of twins in chart work has been perplexing, sometimes it follows the norms of what I would expect of two people born very close together who were not related, sometimes it goes “tilt” - one of the twins is pretty much as expected, the other not even remotely.
So, boil it down to…dunno.