Ooooooooooooh.
Creepy, yet fascinating!
And Yay for having an evil twin !
I am nitpicking somewhat. It’s the specifics of you’re wording.
I make this point because in another article he tried to stop the president from swearing on the Bible during inaugeration saying that the act was forcing some religious belief on him. I don’t agree.
The teacher at school isn’t saying Daddy is wrong. The teacher is saying some people have other beliefs, or the majority of people have other beliefs, which happens to be completely truthful. He free to tell his daughter that the majority is wrong, or that it is only a tradition and she doesn’t have to say under God or the pledge at all. I’ve heard of children of different ages being punished by the school for not participating and I strongly oppose that. No student should ever be chastised in any way for opting out of under God or the pledge.
The same with the presidents swearing in. If the president decides he wants to swear his oath on the Bible then he should be able to do that. He is saying
“This is what I believe” He’s not forcing anyone else to believe by openly expressing his own. It’s a tricky balance to find. I completely support seperation of church and state but I also defend people’s right to worship freely. There’s seems to be some idea floating around that government employees shouldn’t be allowed to make expressions of faith while on the clock. I don’t agree.
Did you notice the other poster who said a teacher {an educated person} told her son he couldn’t carry a bible in school because it violated the establishment clause {What a dumbass}
All that being said, for reasons that differ from the above I don’t think “under God” should be in the pledge officially sanctioned by the goverment, although those who prefer it are free to leave it in. I also understand the objection to an authority figure like a teacher leading small children in a pledge and tend to agree there too although basically I think it’s no big deal. Just talk to the kids about it and I doubt they’ll be converted.
Considering the example set by our born again president and his radical supporters I think believers may have to step back and reconsider.
Marley23 and cosmosdan, since this is a poll and not a debate, if you wish to discuss this side topic could you please take it to Great Debates.
Thank you.
Depends on what your criteria for “worked” is, I guess 
At age five or so, my oldest said he believed that dead people became invisible angels. Some time later, he said he believed in reincarnation, and that he’d been a Tyrannosaurus Rex in a previous life, and he was older than the Universe. These days, he mainly talks about religion in the context of interesting old myths, especially the norse ones. (The Valhalla comic books are great, btw.) And since both my children enjoy looking at the pictures in our (unfortunately only in English) copy of “The Last Hero”, they’ve gotten an introduction to the Discworld gods.
I’ve heard some people worry that children might become confused if they hear a lot of different views on religion. That doesn’t worry me. The reality is confusing and complicated. I’ve put some emphasis on telling them “This is difficult stuff, and you don’t need to make up your mind about what to believe unless you want to.”
My parents raised me Christian until I was in my teens and found out it was a lie. I’ve been agnostic ever since.
In my current relationship, SWMBO is a devout Catholic and has raised her kids in the Catholic faith. Both the kids know my beliefs and they know they can talk to me about religion at any time; I probably know more about it than the last three priests they’ve had at the church. I told them right up front that my beliefs were my own and theirs are theirs. They were welcome to agree or disagree all they wanted; all I asked was that they do so from a logical standpoint rather than a blind, herd mentality approach, and they appreciated that.
My mother was raised hardcore Catholic, my father raised without much religion, although he did attend a school taught by nuns at one point. I’m 99% sure my dad is an atheist. If he believes in God he never told me. My mom has renounced Catholicism but still believes in God, just without a religion attached to Him. My parents raised us with no religion whatsoever.
My grandmother became a Jehova’s Witness and tried to teach me and my sister Bible stories, but all I remember is that I liked the stories because there was always murder or lions or fire or angels with swords or giants and shit like that. The “God” part did not sink in. My sister and I used to go to church sometimes with our friends, but I personally thought it sucked. My sister and I still laugh about the day she accidentally accepted Jesus Christ into her heart. Whoops.
I am atheist, and wholeheartedly anti-religion. I plan to raise my children to be so as well.
I think passing on your beliefs is more about what kind of person you are than it is about what you believe. There are a lot of open minded people in most religions who want their children to make their own decisions, and in most religions you will also find people who feel the need to force their beliefs on their kids and tell them that believing anything else will get them kicked out of the family. My parents fall somewhere in between…it is no secret in our family that you have to be christian. It doesn’t matter which denomination you are, but you had better believe in Jesus. All this means to me is that I can’t tell my parents I decided to become a pagan several years ago. They are fine with other people believing whatever they want, but when it comes to their kids it isn’t okay.
Wow–almost exactly what I was going to say in my post! My parents were never opposed to my trying to learn about religion, but they never really encouraged it either.
I must admit that I was shocked to find out that some people believe the events in the bible really happened. I voraciously read about mythology from lots of different cultures and thought of Christianity as just another example of it.
Lo siento, Czarcasm. I’ll continue this in GD if cosmosdan is interested, although this subject may have already been talked to death.
Agnostic here. I am also what I like to call a ‘cultural Christian.’ Similar to many Jews who don’t actually believe in God, but who still self-identify as Jews on a cultural level. I was raised generically Christian and still have an emotional response to much of Christian mythology, but I don’t actually believe in it. I don’t know whether or not a God or Gods exists and I don’t think it’s possible to know for sure either way.
My husband is a Lutheran and wanted to raise the kids Lutheran. I was willing for him to do this so long as I didn’t have to belong to church and so long as it was understood that the kids would absolutely be allowed to make their own choices religiously. Both kids were baptised as babies and we did Christmas and Easter and so on when the kids were little (again, I enjoy this stuff anyway). I always used the “Different people believe different things. This is what I believe…” line with them, too. I find most religions to be fairly intering, so we always talked a lot about different faiths. When they were old enough they both took Confirmation classes – with the clear uinderstanding that if they found that they didn’t want to be confirmed at the end, they didn’t have to. Both did decide to be confirmed.
My daughter is still pretty devout, which doesn’t bother me at all. I’m of the opinion that it is her business (she is 18, BTW). She goes to church every Sunday, is active in the youth group and so on. She is sometimes prone to talk about her ‘relationship’ with Jesus. I find this tedious, but I try to listen patiently. I daresay she finds some of my interests boring too. She is not intolerant or ‘fundy,’ though – *that would bother me.
My son (19) is now atheist. He was always (his mother’s son) more prone to questions than his sister, and more skeptical overall. He struggled with the decision to be confirmed more than she did. However, he is actually less tolerant of other beliefs than my daughter is – he has a tendancy towards calling (to me, not to people’s faces, which would be rude) faith in God ‘stupid’ and religion ‘a crutch.’
My mother is a vocal atheist and strongly anti-religion but oddly enough, she thought we should make up our own minds on the subject. At our school, you could do religious education if you wanted to and so my Mum signed us up for it. While I don’t think there would have been tears and tantrum if we’d come home and announced that we believed in God, Mum’s utter contempt for and hated of religion was so strong that I don’t think I ever had much hope of becoming a believer. She’s worse than ever now, and can barely control herself enough to be civil when religion is mentioned in her hearing even though the one thing she did firmly impress on us as children was that we should be (at least outwardly) respectful of other people’s beliefs even if we didn’t share them. In a way, I do understand her increasing hostility as we all feel that other people’s religion is being shoved down our necks more and more, and that, as atheists, we are treated with disrespect by the people who we strive to treat respectfully despite our private opinions that they’ve all been taken in by the world’s greatest con. Still, that’s no reason to lash out at individuals the way she has of recent times and the Mum of 20 years ago would have considered her behaviour unthinkable and impolite.
I don’t think it warrents another thread. Feel free to Email me any comments. As I said. It’s the specific details of his objections I object to, but you and I might agree on the end result. For the sake of keeping this a poll
and a good one it is
consider the subject dropped.
All very interesting input tp read. My thanks again to contributors.
Sinboy came home, told me the story and I offered to go to the school and chat with the principle. Sinboy said he would do the chatting, and the principle (a really rational nice guy, all the time) agreed that a student carrying a bible was in no way violating the separation of church and state. End of problem.
Surprisingly enough, this same issue came up when Sinboy was in grammar school. He had to do a book report and make a poster about a book he read. His book was Job by Robert Heinlein. His poster was a very nicely drawn picture of poor Job with GOD sitting on one shoulder and SATAN sitting on the other. The teacher refused to hang up his poster for parent-teacher night. After our meeting with Sinboy’s teacher, MrSin suggested I not go to parent-teacher night for several years.:smack:
It’s ironic that we, as atheists, were accused of trying to inject religion into the public schools. But Sinboy did get 100% on both the poster and the book report. And the poster was hung prominently in our home for years. 
Ah, me got evil twin too!
My mom is, I suppose, vaguely a generic Christian Protestant with a slight Baptist shading. My father was raised Pentecostal, by two parents, who, before their own conversions, were hell-raising (no pun intended), hard-drinking folks. In fact, most people in my dad’s family have gone back and forth between a very strict, fun-is-forbidden churchgoing attitude and being the aforementioned hell-raisers. My mom rarely mentioned religion when my sister and I were growing up and still rarely mentions it. She didn’t care if we went to church and rarely goes herself. Dad, on the other hand, tried his hardest to pass on the version of Christianity that he was raised with–a vengeful God, anything fun is bad for you (so do it anyway and have a little guilt to go with it), only one right way to live. It didn’t quite work. My sister seems to have managed pretty well getting past what Dad told us, but I still have any number of issues with religion and Christianity specifically. I consider myself a Christian, though as I get older, I move closer to theism and agnosticism. One thing I know for certain–I don’t believe in my father’s God.
Very well stated!
Well, my mother’s mother is an ex-nun.