I don’t know the answer to that. It seems that that would be the case though.
When I buy a car, I get the answer to four questions.
What are you offering for my car? (trade in)
What interest are you offering? (I already know what my bank will offer, so I simply compare)
What am I paying for your car?
What are the payment terms?
If you are not careful, as previously mentioned in this thread, the salesmen will try to trick you into committing to a specific payment. They will not tell you what you got for your car or what you paid for their car. Then they print out a contract form 3 feet long and run through it at lighting speed while trying to sell you a lojack and an extended warranty and special paint protection packages etc.
Once I have my 4 questions answered, I tell them they have already gotten all my money and I’m now too broke to buy dinner not to mention all the other crap they are trying to sell me.
I assume because they want to talk you out of paying cash, and sell you a loan. So they want to know what your credit is like to see how much they can charge on the loan.
If that was the reason they didn’t try very hard. I was playing two Toyota dealers off against each other, and perhaps he figured I’d split if he got too pushy.
I had cash in my purse to buy a used car from a dealership and they jackwagon was trying to talk me into financing a loan. I was young and cute and perky and very quiet. I let my boyfriend (future husband) do all the talking. The salesman kept telling me it would be a GOOD THING for ME to get this loan and start getting a credit line. Uh huh. Blah blah blah. Eventually, tired of the jibber jabber, I told the saleass either he take my money now or I walk right across the street and spend it at their competitors.
About 10 years ago, we needed new windows. My neighbor, who is a great negotiator, had just installed new windows the week prior. She had done a ton of legwork comparing different companies’ products and prices, etc. So when we decided to get them in our house (which is the exact same size house as the neighbor), we had no desire to reinvent the wheel. We called the salesman she had signed with and said that we had seen our neighbors’ new windows, and were interested in getting them provided we could get the same deal as our neighbor. We told him to just come by with a contract and all he’d have to do is measure and order them.
Despite this, and despite telling him several times throughout the evening that we didn’t need or want to listen to his sales pitch, the salesman just could not do that. He HAD to do his routine, complete with a series of demo windows. We politely interrupted a few times, but it soon became obvious that he was not going to go off script and intended to go through the whole freaking routine. My husband, who was late for a ballgame, finally stood up and said, “Buddy, I told you from the beginning that I don’t need to listen to your sales pitch. You absolutely REFUSE to listen to us. You have exactly two minutes to draw up a contract. Otherwise, you’ll need to leave.”
I think a lot of people–including car salesmen–see having a car payment as like having a utility bill–it’s just part of life. So if you walk in with 15K in your purse, they can’t help but see it in terms of “what kind of car can you get with a down payment like that?”. For a lot of people, having significantly less car than you can afford is a weird concept.
I don`t understand why you’re so upset about the way they explained it. I can’t see where you said they tried to change your deal or cost you more money or anything negative at all. Am I missing that?
What I’m hearing is that they said they have a problem closing the deal because they need documentation of your social security income. But you can easily solve that problem so you object to them calling it a problem at all. Is that right?
People come to me with problems all day long and in the majority of cases I can solve them quickly and easily. It’s not a problem for me because I can easily solve it, but it’s a problem for them because they can’t solve it without my help. So it’s ok with me that they say they have a problem. Is your case any different?
What if you couldn’t get the letter they need? Then the dealer and you would have a problem, right?
If the rate is sales supported (Lower than market rate through a mfg finance company) the dealer gets very little to nothing. But they do sell the car, so they’re happy.
If the rate isn’t sales supported but through a finance company a dealer can get something called a reserve, which is a percentage of the anticipated revenue from the loan. This can be 10 bucks, fifty bucks, or if they mark up rate it might be a couple grand.
Dealers also can (and often do) get credit through unaffiliated companies, where they can get a reserve, a kickback, or give up some money to do a loan below market. There are finance companies will give a dealer a cut of every point they jack the loan. The ones that don’t put limits on this are not very nice companies, as a general rule.
A Dealer will sometimes take loans below market because if they are making a ton of money selling the car. but not often.
On that subject, there is occasionally a magic car. They only sell it on the last day of the month, and they will sort of take a loss on it, both on price and financing. They wil do this because if they sell 40 Canyoneros in month the sales manager gets a 5K bonus and an invitation to a regional sales event. The FI manager will not have to pay on floorplanning the vehicle, meaning that he makes his numbers, so he will sign off. The owner of the dealership is golfing with the owner’s of Crazy Bud’s Canyonero tomorrow and would like to rub the 40 in his face, so he’ll sign off.
Things like GAP, Road Hazard, Credit Life, and the like can be anywhere from 25% to 80 % cash to the dealer. Which is why the dealer would really like you to buy them.
I’ll admit that I probably jumped to conclusions. It turns out that I was correct in that all they really wanted was a letter from Social Security verifying what I had told them. What bothered me what partially that they told me they were having trouble getting it funded. But mostly it was the way the guy talked on the phone and the tone he used. Since my credit is not stellar, I immediately thought that the loan was either going to be turned down or if I was able to get financing at all, I would be saddled with an interest rate of 30+%.
Arrange your financing through your credit union. It’s real easy if you’ve been a member for a bit and they know you. (You’ve borrowed before, your credit union is attached to your employer, etc.) You have the financing in order. They could cut you a check right there so you could pay the dealer with your personal check. Cash deal. Done and done. Just don’t do it that way. Dogzilla’s approach is valid. Just want to be clear.
Instead, you sign the contract to buy the vehicle and they know you have your own financing. Just as the dealer may have their medium gray clause saying actual ownership transfer was contingent on the financing going through, as LSLGuy says, you add to the contract before signing, “Final sale is contingent upon approval from XX Credit Union credit committee,” or something similar.
The dealer can play their game and allow you to drive off the lot, but you are playing their game, by your rules. If something smells, the vehicle doesn’t feel right, or whatever, you tell the credit committee to formally deny your loan (even though you’ve done your homework with them beforehand and they approved the loan but not actually signed off on it). Deal is off. You return the vehicle. Dealer can’t come after you. You can get the vehicle fixed, replaced, better deal or go elsewhere.
During my experience of being alive and paying attention to people around me, not only should car salesman think people climbed from the turnip truck, they should believe they fell from the turnip truck and landed directly on their head.
The world makes a hell of a lot more sense when you look around and assume everyone around you is stupid.
I’ve just finished shopping for a new truck. Been at it all through January and took the new one home Monday night.
I examined all 5 brands of full-sized pickup. I was searching for the best ‘fit’ to the 5th wheel and other trailers I already have. My decision was completely driven by a tape measure, and occasionally slotting one of their pickups next to my trailer to check fit and clearances
Five manufacturers, 7 different salesman. Every single salesperson concluded the test drive with: “Well, Mr Pullin, what can I do to put you in this truck today?”
I wonder sometimes if they’re just following a script? Or if maybe their boss requires them to try that line?
In one case the truck was completely unsuitable, and I informed the salesman we were ending the test drive, and I could not in any way, use his brand of truck. (I even offered to buy him lunch for taking up his time). Yet he still trotted out the “…what can I do to get you to buy today” line. It was bizarre.
As I mentioned earlier, I used to be a car salesman. One of the things that I was taught, and every car salesman I’ve talked to was taught the same thing, is that it is extremely important to close the sale and have the customer take possession of the vehicle today, now, during the first contact. Another nearly universal belief is that any offer from the customer, no matter how ridiculous, is the essential first step to a completed sale. The preferred phrase at my dealership was “Mr. Customer, what can I do to earn your business today?”
So it is possible that they are following a script, and very likely that they have been taught to use that line.
I’m sure you’re right about the script - they’ve got that pounded into them so hard it comes out automatically, no “process what the customer just said” at all!
Did you give him a “WTF” look and said “I’m sorry, but this truck Just.Will.Not.Do!”?
I managed to pre-empt that spiel once… when we bought our 98 Honda Civic (which we still own). Our older one had just been totalled, we wanted a 98 model (this was december 98 so it was a prior model year) figuring it’d be less costly and we knew a couple of dealerships still had some in stock.
Typo Knig went to one dealership, test drove their car, and the salesman was trying to get him to commit to a figure higher than we had in mind. He said “I have to discuss it with my wife”. And the salesman tried the “you mean you let your WIFE push you around??” tack.
I looked in the yellow pages, found a dealership I didn’t even know of, closer to home. Called to see if they had a 98 in stock. They did. I walked in. Glanced at it. Said “if you give it to me for invoice and install a cassette player at dealer cost, I’ll take it off your lot tonight”.
Their jaws dropped. “Don’t you even want to test drive it?”.
“Nope. Already did that at another dealer. We got a deal?”.
3ish hours later, after Typo Knig brought the kids over so we could sign all the paperwork, we had a new car.
Back to the “wife push you around” thing: This is the second time a salesman has lost a car sale to us due to that attitude. The first being the time Typo Knig was in grad school, I had a real job and we were looking to dump our Dodge Omni (scathing subject of another thread posting in the past few days) for a Mazda 626. The salesman ignored me (the one with the JOB) totally, spoke only to Typo Knig.
Then it was time to negotiate. I had set a price for which we’d do the deal - x dollars plus our old car for tradein. I got them down to within 300 bucks of that (which was still a very fair deal and I might have gone for it except for the attitude). We walked. 3 days later he called me and hinted that they’d meet our price. I said “no thanks”. And told him why.
So, I must conclude that Salesman 101 also includes a module on talking to the MAN.
You brought up a very good point. Your suggestion gives you a bit of buyer’s remorse wiggle room. In my situation, I was buying a brand new car that had only 43 miles on it (most of which I’d put on test driving) and had already fallen madly in love with my cute little red two-seater. If I were buying a used car, I would totally go with your approach.
And yeah, I’ll give up that car when you pry my cold dead body out of it.
