Inspired by this thread (Car salesman asked how I owed on my trade in. - Factual Questions - Straight Dope Message Board) where I posted a little too prodigiously, I thought:
“Hey, let’s let Dopers ask away about any and all sundry topics regarding my sleazy, slimy, nefarious way of making a living!”
So ask away. So tell me, what if I could promise you 100% transparency? Would you post your thoughts today?
What is the most misunderstood part of your job (what people think you do vrs what you really do)?
What’s the deal with the undercoating?
I sold cars for about a year in my youth and it was an odd experience. I worked for a Honda dealership in 1987 and the sales model was that the sales people were basically just a pair of shoes. We were not even allowed to talk price and had to bring the person inside to talk to the sales manager after giving them a drive and a tour of the car. It was stupid and humiliating. Hondas were a super hot brand at the time and the dealership owner figured they would just sell themsleves. We were paid a pittance per car. I spent a year there and I’m ashamed I didn’t leave earlier.
I know other dealerhsips had different selling models and in some the salespeople could craft the deal.
How does your dealership work?
Just wanted to chime in and say I loved your post in the linked thread. I work in commission sales too (insurance not cars) and am always amazed at how poorly the general public are willing to treat sales people.
My questions for you,
How did you end up in sales? What do you friends and family think?
What, if any, misconceptions about your job did you have before you got the job, both good and bad?
Did you get any training on how to sell? Actually do you consider what you do to be more sales or negotiation? I know with my job, no one wakes up and says “today’s the day I am going to to get Life Insurance!” But people totally say that about car buying. So for me selling is 50% getting in front of a genuine prospect and 50% removing reasons why they then can’t make a commitment today. But no negotiation really. How about you?
My father was a car salesman and 3 of my brothers were care salesmen and all later became managers. All of them were extremely honest and extremely successful. They built up a strong clientele and seldom ever took ups. I chose to become a mechanic.
Honestly the most misunderstood part of my job is that I’m misunderstood. Car buyers have literally no idea what I go through. The industry meme about “We’re not the fucking liars, THEY’RE the fucking liars” is mostly true.
It’s total bullshit, don’t EVER buy it. I refuse to sell it as it’s a profit center for everyone involved. Yes I’d make more money selling this to you, but it’s not worth it. It is a tangible thing that you can touch and see but it’s long term benefits as it’s sold are highly questionable.
Honda is still a super hot brand. The experience you describe is totally alien to me. Hondas have zero front end gross, the money in selling those is in a ridiculous ampunt of units plus accessories. For instance, Honda doesn’t have remote start as a factory option. Many people want that.
I fell into it by a love of cars themselves after losing a career job of almost ten years. I had what amounts to zero training. I had the same misconceptions as everyone does and vowed to change them. I have. My customers love me. We don’t fuck around.
Good on all of you. Again, I am here to dispel half-truths and rumors. I am an honest car salesman, I know my product inside and out and if it’s a fair deal for us and a fair deal for you, then we’ll do business. Provided you like the car of course, and oft overlooked part of the process by customers.
I’ve mentioned before that I worked for a brief period as an RV salesman; fewer sales, but much larger commissions. I agree that the misconception that all sales people are slime is largely nonsense in today’s world.
There were the good salesmen who treated customers fairly and honestly and who were consistently at the top of the sales numbers every month, and there were the grinders who barely made ends meet because their desperation came through loud and clear to the customers, and who had many complaints in their files for using high pressure tactics. The company did provide training. The sales manager had to approve all offers and sales folk did not have access to the computer file that showed the profit margins.
Honda and Toyota don’t even know what “options” are. You want an additional feature? Fuck you, step up to the next trim level for another $4,000.
All new, all used, or a mix?
The new ones, do they have optional individual features or are they the kind where if you want A/C that’s part of the Sporty Pack which means you need to buy both the Extra, Super, and Sporty packs? (Because I’m soooooo dying to have a car with baseball-ball-shaped hubcaps, don’tchaknow).
Do salesmen go in order when it comes to new customers, or does it come down to who gets there first? We’ve driven up to dealerships where it feels like the vultures are circling, just waiting to pounce on us when we get out of our car.
At what point can you tell whether you have buyers or lookers?
Why does it take so long to do a deal? We found the car we wanted, we came back with our trade and a check to cover the difference, so there was no financing. We’d arranged for our insurance. Silly us - hoping to sign a couple of papers, then be on our way. Nope, it took at least 2 hours. Not the way we wanted to spend our evening.
Do you ever just shake your head at the stupid prices the GM slaps on used cars?
My experience has been that the guys in the back room who go over the paperwork and try to sell warranties are worse than the actual salesman. Does that hold true in your experience?
How can one be better prepared for this?
Examples 2 and 3 below are disturbing to me since those guys were targeting women who they thought wouldn’t offer much resistance–who couldn’t afford the extras that they were selling. How can a woman safely buy a car alone without being cheated?
The bonus question to 3 is “which add-ons are actually worth it?”
Example 1: I bought a new VW with sport rims, and the warranty guy kept pressuring me to buy a warranty for the tires and rims. He gave me a copy of the warranty to take home and think about. When I picked up the car he gave me the hard sell, telling me about how they would fix everything and make it perfect if there were ever tire/rim damage. I showed the huge gaps in the warranty (pothole and curb damage exclusion), and he took it and handed me a different one saying “Oops, I gave you the wrong one.”–but the one he handed me had the identical language. I walked out of his office at that point. To be clear, he lied and said pothole and curb damage were covered. He did so several times.
Example 2: My sister-in-law bought a car a couple of months back and couldn’t understand why the numbers didn’t add up. Indeed, her down payment and trade in had a combined value greater than half of the total of the financed payments. Something was off. When she contacted them they spotted several “mistakes” that were in their favor, totaling thousands. They reversed some of them.
Example 3: Mom bought a cheap car last month with no haggling, but the finance guy kept pressuring her to pay all kinds of add-ons that had nothing to do with the car. He told her “but you need this” and she kept saying “no, I don’t” She fought tooth and nail to get the car for the agreed upon price. They were all BS add-ons that a fixed-income retired person who rarely drives just doesn’t need and can’t afford.
Are you sick of hearing “I’M JUST BROWSING,” said with a panicked look?
Used to love that as a salesman while attending university. It’s OK dude, you can just look. You don’t have to generate some assertiveness, square your shoulders to me, and intone the magic words which will force me back into my Commission Vampire crypt.
I just realized this was off…the problem was that the trade-in + down-payment were over half of the value of the new vehicle, but the financed amount was the full value of the new vehicle. They had “accidentally” taken several thousand dollars from her.
There is often an “ups” list. Where I worked, the list was in order of the previous month’s sales. If you had the most sales the month before, you were first ‘up’ every day for the next month. At some places it can be fairly cutthroat, though.
Buyers usually know pretty much exactly what they want. Lookers are more of the “show me a bunch of cars so I can waste your time” type. Sales people grit their teeth and accommodate you, but it’s money out of their pocket if you’re not buying.
One thing I recommend: if you are just making a preliminary visit to look at a couple of models, and the sales person treats you well, make sure you get his card and go back to him when you make your purchase.
Because once you’ve made it past the salesperson and the sales manager, you still have to negotiate your way through the “finance manager”. Even if you are paying cash with no loan, you still need to talk to the finance guy, who tries to sell you extended warranties, paint protection (the new undercoating), dealer-installed options and other crap. If you actually need a loan, you’ll be there even longer. In many/most dealerships, the finance guy is amongst the best salesmen in the building, and makes more money than most salespeople. And he gets you once your guard is down, thinking you’ve negotiated the deal.
http://www.edmunds.com/car-buying/behind-the-scenes-at-a-car-dealership.html
Any comments about this article, sales guy?
When I bought my last car, I knew what I wanted. I went to one lot to test drive that model to confirm so I did have some interaction with the sales rep on the test drive where I asked a few specific questions. I then went home, browsed the inventory of the nearest dealerships and got online quotes for the exact model/trim package. I then picked the best deal (I was surprised how much variation there was between the 4 dealerships for the exact same model). I confirmed over email that that was the exact price I would pay since I would be bringing a pre-filled check. Told them when to have it ready, showed up, gave the check, signed a few things, drove home with car. It was an extremely easy process. How much does the dealership make in this scenario?
In my case, the dealership that I test drove the car is the one I bought from so I did mention that sales rep name when I bought just in case he would benefit. Did he?
And, why don’t most people use this method? It is simple. No haggling, no pressure, no hidden charges, etc. You can research how much the car should cost and get quotes at your leisure. I know that I did my own research and some might want a sales rep to provide the info but it’s so easy now to get this info on your own.
See, it’s this kind of unthinking contempt for car buyers that convince us that salesmen are still all thieves and liars.
Last time I bought a car (2 years ago), I did a ton of research online. I narrowed it down to 3 possibilities, with a list of possible options. But at some point, yes, I need to see and drive all 3 possibilities, possibly in 2 different trim models, to make a decision as to which car and options made the most financial sense. Sure, your Ford is great, but no matter how much you want to sell it to me today, I’m not going to buy it until I drive the Nissan tomorrow. Sorry if that makes you grit your teeth, and sorry if somehow my test drive cost you money personally (?), but that’s the way your employers have decided to design the whole industry.
My late brother told me to go in the third, or better, the fourth week of the month, and ask for the salesperson who is in second place on the sales chart. He figured that guy would be more driven to make a sale. Does that make sense?