I’m technical, I like to tinker occasionally. But really I just like the ability to tinker, I usually only tinker when initially setting up a computer/device and then infrequently when I’m ready for a change. Having the capability is important to me.
I don’t really consider Mac or PC computers a walled garden, I know you can modify Windows extensively, can’t you do the same with MacOS? Can’t you change the look of the desktop, the launcher, etc? The main downsides of Mac to this tech guy is high hardware cost and lack of software (mostly games, and yes I know there are some available.)
Certain content like video purchased via iTunes, Amazon becomes a walled garden due to DRM. But for music I just buy MP3s from Amazon (and could do the same from iTunes.), no DRM. I don’t bother buying downloaded videos, I just stream from Netflix and Amazon.
So in the context of media, a lot of the “walled garden” depends on where you buy from, what it is, and whether it has DRM.
I consider iOS to be a walled garden because Apple does whatever they can to keep you from using your device and storage any way except their sanctioned way.
I’m a gamer, so I like to be able to upgrade what I need when I need without having to buy an entirely new computer, so that basically leaves Apple computers out for me, as they’re not easily upgradable.
Outside of that, it’s a tool to surf, read, shop, play games, etc. Not much tinkering here anymore.
They’re not that bad (some people think Macs aren’t upgradeable at all) but they’re not as upgradeable as PCs. Like I mentioned, I upgraded my graphics card from whatever the stock graphics card was to a ATI Radeon HD 5770 with no hassle, and the processor from two Core Duos to a two Quad-Core Xeons. But that’s about as far as I can go along the upgrade path with the first generation MacPro (1.1).
I started this thread about why I hate Apple, and a lot of it has to do with their restrictions to certain kinds of use. The incident that prompted me to start the thread was attempting to move a podcast to my iPad without synching. Turns out Apple doesn’t seem to want me to do that.
Is that tinkering? I don’t think so. I think I was trying to accomplish a perfectly ordinary operation. Call me stubborn for not wanting to synch the iPad to my desktop, but it’s those sorts of requirements that I find a bit onerous.
I’m not a tinkerer with computers. I don’t run Ubuntu, I’m not writing my own code for things. But I do like to be able to do a certain amount of customizing, and the way Apple does business is an impediment to me.
Interesting in the OP that you compared computer tinkerers to Libertarians. As I understand Libertarianism, they want as little regulation as possible apart from certain critical aspects such as contract enforcement. Why would such a person accept the type of restrictions Apple puts on users? Because they’re a private company? It’s only when those restrictions come from government that they object, but from Apple they’re OK?
I agree that tuning your PC is a 90’s/2000’s issue for most users, and now the OS is basically plumbing.
That said, on this laptop I’m typing from, (Sony Vaio with Windows 7 OEM installed), I’ve changed the hard drive after dropping a giant, ancient Sony trinitron TV on it, upgraded the RAM from 4G to 8G, reinstalled Windows 7 on the new HD, double-booted with Linux Ubuntu and installed Windows Server 2008 on a VM under Windows 7.
I did all that without having to edit the registry, (which I’m rusty at, but can still do if I need to).
Adding other OS’S wasn’t necessary for most computer users, just something I needed for my IT job.
I did a double take. I confuse you with MacTech sometimes, and I thought he made a biiiiig 180.
Maybe. Some libertarians are that way, allowing stupidity as long as it’s private.
I don’t like forced tinkering. I remember trying to make Broadcom drivers work in Kubuntu a few years back (it may be easier now). In keeping with Linux’s “Open Source Always!” mantra, they couldn’t just give simple drivers.
I’ve always viewed this as one more thing along the continuum of “More Freedom / Less (potential) stability” to “Less Freedom / More (potential) stability”. It’s a trade-off situation- the more tinkering room you give your users, the more problems they’re likely to have. If you lock them down, and force them to go along well tested paths, they won’t have problems, but won’t be able to do much of anything outside of those paths. This is true for most consumer products, not just operating systems.
When I was younger, I loved the tinkering and the involved setup of the DOS and Windows 3.1 days, and editing of ini files, etc… but as I get older and have more time demands and better things to do, I’m more interested in having an appliance-like machine that I can dick with if I so choose, but that I don’t have to, which is why I run Windows 7.
Sure. And that sort of customizabity isn’t unusual in a Mac. We put in extra RAM, new hard drives, and even replaced a broken LCD screen on my wife’s MacBook. Now, the unibody MacBook Pro is a bit more of a pain in the ass to do that with. But with a vanilla 2007 MacBook, easy peasy.
Apparently, the “Retina” models feature glued-in batteries, so home repair is much much more difficult. Certain other models may have screws, but lots of them and of the small, easy to strip design like many other laptops.
Yeah, I don’t have those yet, just the standard MacBook Pro unibody, which is relatively easy to take apart (which I had to do to fix some water damage. Believe it or not, a 95% isopropyl alcohol solution and Q-tip saved me from a $1200 logic board replacement. :)) However, it’s not on the older MacBook level, where you just take out the battery from the back and have access to the hard drive and ram slots right there.
I think there are multiple things going on. For one, I think the people on Slashdot, XDA, and other geek-centric forums suffer from pretty severe cases of hipsteritis—We’re l33t, the other 99.999% of sheeple don’t love their [computers/phones/OS] like we do, and are happy being locked up in a little garden. I bet you find the same thing on car, bicycle, climbing, dog collecting, etc. forums. The point is, I think taking those people’s opinions on the number who want to tinker will lead you to believe it is a tiny percentage of the user base. Now, I think there is a clear distinction between those who only use computers as a tool or game station, and those who find computers a fun thing to play with in their own right.
Second, without getting all RMS, I think the problem of the walled garden is not so much where we are today (except probably with iOS), but where it’s leading. Windows and Mac OSs are still pretty free. Things can be installed from outside sources with a minimum of difficulty. The problem is where things can go. What if in 5 years all computers are like iOS? The only way to install outside software is to “jailbreak” your own device (and this will possibly be illegal). It’s impossible to run it on anything except the black box hardware it comes with, and it comes preloaded with spyware and other things that the end users (whether they know about it or not) have no interest in having on their device. The time to fight something like this isn’t after it’s happened, but rather to prevent it from happening in the first place. Having freedom is important, even if all people don’t choose to exercise all aspects of their freedom.
Is this likely? I don’t really think so, but with the craziness going on with the patent fighting, we might be left with only Apple. Despite the much talked about “death of the PC,” it’s not going anywhere, it’s just gotten boring. As general purpose computers get older they will be replaced, and companies and individuals will continue to require the ability to install whatever random software they need to get things done. I could see it happening on tablets and phones. They’re not entrenched in usage the way general purpose computers are, so they won’t move into those niches until they can do so with software from inside their walled gardens.
That was a pretty rambling post to say: Most people probably don’t care as long as their games and social networking function, “most” might not be as small as some people think. When the walled gardens get too small, for example Apple bans Facebook over some pissing match(or more likely, makes viewing web-based pornography extremely difficult), then people will really care.
I majored in Computer Science and worked in IT for a few years (before a total change in career) and I’ve known a lot of people who say things like you do. Quite honesty, I find it extremely frustrating.
First, computer geeks of any stripe or knowledge/ability level truly have no fucking clue just how tiny of a minority they are. Computer geeks will talk to other computer geeks and feel like they make up a sizable chunk of the population, but it’s just selection bias. The vast, vast majority of computer users just want to use them to do what they want to do. No more, no less. I’d say a majority don’t know how to do the kind of troubleshooting that most geeks find laughably beginner.
And there’s nothing wrong with that! Seriously, why should you actually get upset that your husband doesn’t care about msconfig? Try asking every computer user you know (not geek, every user) about msconfig. I guaran-damn-tee that most of them have never used it in their entire lives and most of them have never even heard of it. Why should they care, on a practical level?
And second, I’m amused that you asked your husband (who sounds like an admitted non-computer geek) where msconfig is in Win8 and take his, “I dunno? It might not have it?” as a reason to (or potential reason to) dislike MS and Win8.
Wtf is that? Someone who is truly interested in that would either futz around with the OS themselves or at least do some research to find out for sure. And if I hear criticism about an OS (or software or whatever) from someone who hasn’t even used the thing or refuses to try it out at all, I’m more likely to dismiss it, or at least take it with a gigantic grain of salt.
I’ll take the walled garden any day as long as I can plug in a peripheral and it works instantly. No more remembering addresses for every card, no more re-setting dip switches, no more resolving memory conflicts - wall me in BABY!
Most of the time I used it was supporting home users who had too many processes running in the background, eating up their RAM and CPU cycles.
It was one of the things I missed in Windows 2000, but I was able to download and install the NT4 version with no problem.
I liked IBM clone PC’s in the 90’s &2000’s because I could score an old case for free, put in a decent motherboard and install the components I wanted. It’s been many years since I’ve been part of that ‘hot rodding’ geek subculture, and a lot of it was simple one-upmanship pissing contest; seeing who could do the most with the least. Like the beowolf cluster my roommate and I built inside an old refrigerator, using old win 9x boxes we got for $5.00 apeice and used to crack the firewall around China.
That kind of thing was fun. At the same time I’m like most (well over 99.9%) users who just want a tool they can start up and fire off an email, surf the web, play videos, do some accounting or work on a document with no tweaking. One of the things I hated (and still dislike) about linux is needing to use the command line to install programs. Most Linux programs that you can download off the web have their own compiler that runs automatically, but that wasn’t the case 10 years ago. I really do appreciate not having to do that now.
I never got into Mac because of the initial expense. I may someday, but so far my IT jobs have only required knowledge of different versions of Windows and Linux, mostly debian.
I’m not sure I know what people mean by walled garden in this thread. In the extreme case, I agree with you completely about stupid restrictions. I have pdfs of spreadsheets of my sf book collection - loading them onto my Android phone involved plugging it in to my laptop, copying and pasting. Needing special software to do that is stupid.
Some libertarians are convinced that they are so smart they can do stuff better than the damn government. I’m a professional computer scientist, and I’ve taught Operating Systems, and I know that if 99.9% of self proclaimed computer geeks looked at Linux source they’d have no clue, and would screw things up if they changed something. At this point it would take a long time to figure out what was going on. That’s different from being able to add applications. At work I live in the command line, which I much prefer. I work on UNIX, which is open, but I have never had need to look at the code.
I work in a department which designs microprocessors. As far as I know, no one here has built his or her own computer. Very few have the need for configurations which you cannot buy, and our hourly rate is high enough that building one is going to cost more. I also know a good bit about system test and the kinds of things that can go wrong, and I much rather have a $200K piece of test equipment check stuff out rather than a scope. I can see it as a hobby. Kind of like building your own car from junkyard parts.
Someone who is truly interested in that would either futz around with the OS themselves or at least do some research to find out for sure. And if I hear criticism about an OS (or software or whatever) from someone who hasn’t even used the thing or refuses to try it out at all, I’m more likely to dismiss it, or at least take it with a gigantic grain of salt.