Who gets to decide what’s “widely known” to be wrong, when there’s half the nation protesting that it isn’t wrong?
How far back does this go? Do you condemn hunter-gatherers for their lack of elected, bi-cameral legislatures?
It’s not my philosophy as such, I’ve just never seen a Memorial Day newscast that started “And today we honor America’s fallen servicemen…except the ones who killed Indians. And the ones who occupied the Philippines. And the ones who invaded Iraq, the second time. And the ones who took half of Mexico over. And the ones who took Japanese skulls as souvenirs. And the ones…” It’s typically kept pretty simple and universal.
If all American history is so twisted and evil, why celebrate any of it?
I admit that slavery was evil, that’s pretty simple to modern eyes. And actually, per the above, you have to condemn the entire United States for practicing it, since the entire nation did so at the time of the Revolution. The South had no monopoly on slavery, they were just last off the train due to their different material circumstances, not their inferior morality.
Or Americans who fought for the Kaiser, or Tokyo Rose, where’s their holiday? Just because the treason happened on US soil to protect slavery they get to share a holiday with my friend killed in Iraq?
But neither approach you describe entails honoring the people. If you’re honoring them, you’re not examining them in their “proper” context.
So if we want to be historians, we shouldn’t be honoring anyone. But if we want to find someone to honor, thanks, but I’ll go for the “don’t honor the fuckers defending slavers” option.
And if that means I also can’t honor Indian killers, Crusaders, Conquistadores, witch burners, or the Golden Horde, somehow I’ll manage to live with the burden.
How are they even relevant. Are there monuments and memorials sponsored by American governmental agencies to Japanese, Germans, and British who fought against the United States?
So far as Indians are concerned, if you’re talking about American Indians/Native Americans, then I consider that a different situation. They didn’t commit treason against the United States.
I don’t, there are no good reasons. I don’t need any Jefferson Davis statues or schools, though of course they exist.
Honoring the soldiers of the Confederacy, on the other hand? Because it’s only right to honor those who fight with bravery and honor and sacrifice their lives in battle. I’m sure it goes back to the need for a warrior caste in ancient times, but it’s still with us: you honor your fallen warriors.
When that half of the nation ties itself into knots denying that it’s wrong, that’s a good clue. They weren’t honestly mistaken, they went to enormous efforts building an edifice of of lies, denial and self delusion to convince themselves that so obviously going against their own principles was right.
Sure you are, because you’re honoring them for things that we still value, not the things we don’t. Slavery isn’t on that list, but honor and bravery are. As are the Enlightenment values that the Founding Fathers held, but fell well short of. You can acknowledge the wrongs and celebrate the rights, not choose to either whitewash the bad stuff or condemn all pre-right-now people as unworthy. Keep your mindset relative, instead of absolute, and you won’t go awry.
Who does make the cut?
Again, not many folks left you can honor. Even Abe Lincoln was a racial separatist.
Except I see the exact opposite happen; in reality, once people start defending the “honor” of people who fought for slavery, they soon start defending slavery itself. As seen in this thread, with all the handwaving about how we can’t judge the slaveowners.
I can tell. I can’t imagine any American holidays holding much appeal for you, then. Many of pagan rituals co-opted by Christians, several are religious, and most of the rest refer to American history.
That’s just the outcome of your logic. If admitting that slavery is evil means that we have to condemn the South for practicing it, why doesn’t that mean condemning the North for practicing it?
If you don’t see the point, does that mean that you don’t feel the need to honor non-Confederate war dead on Memorial Day?
That’s what Memorial Day is. It is that blanket statement codified, whether you exclude Confederate soldiers or not, because either way you’re left with some unpleasant historical realities that are being glossed over because the holiday is about honoring the fallen, and nothing else.
I’m not just talking about the Union here, Memorial Day covers all American servicemen. That includes Indian fighters, and the men who occupied the Philippines, among others. Should they be honored?
You’ll have to find someone who does and ask them.
Irrelevant question. Confederates might have been American and they might have been soldiers, but they were not American soldiers. So however you answer those other question, it doesn’t apply to them.
It’s certainly relevant, if the issue is the Confederate soldiers’ moral failings. It can’t be their nationality, as they were Americans throughout the war. So, the basis for not wanting them honored is that they were in conflict with another group of Americans?