If you don’t care about what conservatives think, stop acting like you care about what conservatives think. In other words, go to the Pit.
You mean the 5% or less where she says shit like (paraphrased)“Timothy McVeigh should have gone to the NY Times building” or “women shouldn’t be allowed to vote”?
Seriously dude, I’m friends with lots of conservatives. Every single one of them takes a “get off my side you crazy toxic bitch” attitude towards Ann Coulter. Because they’re sane.
When the opposition IS evil or crazy that is a foolish attitude. Sometimes the opposition IS evil. And that is one of the major mistakes of the Left.
They keep trying to compromise and cooperate with the Republicans, under the assumption that they are well meaning but misguided; and it doesn’t work, because the Republicans are not well meaning at all. The Democrats reacted to 9-11 with an attempt at bipartisanship, with the attitude that we needed to pull together in the crisis; and the Republicans took ruthless advantage of that, demonstrating no concern for the country or any interest in cooperation during the crisis; they just took it as a chance to push their agenda regardless of the cost. And now when Obama and the Democrats foolishly attempting to compromise and be bipartisan, under the assumption ( that you recommend ) that they treat the Republicans as civilized, all they are getting is obstructionism, sabotage, hatred and threats in response.
Yes, conservatives believe the ends justify the means. They care nothing for the consequences of their actions, or for the welfare of the country. They want to get their way, and if they can’t they will quite happily try to sabotage the government until the country suffers disaster out of spite. They want to get their way at any cost; they will not compromise or cooperate no matter what.
What makes you think I don’t understand conservatives? I’ve read Ayn Rand and Adam Smith. I read conservative editorials. I watched the presidential debates. I could take the opposite side and do a good job of defending free markets and open trade and less regulation and local control. What I could not in good conscience do, is make up lies out of whole cloth and repeat them with a straight face. No intelligent person with a shred of integrity would think Obama is a socialist, or a secret Muslim. Or that the Democrats proposed a death panel.
My complete lack of a sarcasm detector. Chalk up another point for :smack: smiley.
So to get back to the OP, what I have heard from conservatives so far is that yes, conservatives do think that the ends justify the means, but that liberals do it too so it is OK. Is that right?
One of my favorite Ann Coulter reason and logic moments was when she was on Canadian TV, trying to tell the news anchor that the country of Canada sent troops to Vietnam. She could not admit she was wrong, wrong, wrong. it was a hoot to watch.
Reality has a well known liberal bias.
I’m sorry, but associating “conservatism” with the statements bolded puts you pretty close to the same place on the spectrrum of rational thought as those you are excoriating. You are picking the worst examples of the fringes of the loony right and equating the beliefs of some of them and the tactics of some of them (and the believers and the tacticians are not always a congruent set), to all current conservatives and (recent) conservatism.
That is not rational.
Since you oppose (your views of) conservatism, may we all agree that you believe that the U.S. deserved the WTC/Pentagon attacks or that it is accurate to portray the Conservative position on health care is “if you’re poor and sick, just die”–positions actually expressed by different “liberal” individuals?
Consider how close your posts are to those of Der Trihs and see whether you really wish to hold that position.
You realize that you are characterizing Sarah “death panel” Palin as a member of the loony right. She was a VP candidate in the last election, I seem to recall. You can’t get more mainstream than that.
What Euphonious Polemic said; I see no reason to think that those ARE fringe beliefs on the Right.
Yes, I’d consider that a fair description of their actual beliefs, not that they are usually honest enough to admit it ( the leadership at least usually isn’t ). The American Right is heavily infested with Social Darwinism.
So which is it when you twist the response during this exchange
(from abcnews) to mean that he wants to spend the next 100 years in Iraq? And then you make an ad that blatantly suggests that he mean fighting for a century, not in peace time by cutting off every thing after the 100 years?
Is that shading the truth, or making something up whole cloth? Because as much as I loathe Palin, she didn’t pluck the idea of death panels out the the thin air, either, but stupidly twisted something in the bill to mean something vastly different too. Neither of these things is quite a idiotic as claiming that someone saying they want to “serve our children” means they wish to cook them, but they’re damn close.
Yes, that’s the kind of stuff I’m talking about. I just don’t see the need to throw out everything she says.
Wow, that’s SO funny. I never heard that before. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
It’s funny 'cause it’s true.
No, it’s funny because both liberals and conservatives THINK it’s true, for their own side at least, and it’s hilarious to watch them both say stupid things like this, then scratch their head and wonder why everyone else is laughing at them. Well, that and it’s pretty funny when they complain that the OTHER side won’t work with them, have partisan blinkers on, etc etc.
-XT
No, that is not true. She made it up and then defended it (and still does). There was nothing in the bill about a panel of any sort that would judge whether someone was worthy to live or die. Nothing. There was a provision allowing a doctor to charge for end-of-life counseling. There is no honest manner in which you can twist that into a death panel. If she had made an honest mistake she could have corrected it.
tomndeb I think you are off base here. Palin was the VP candidate. If McCain was elected she’d have been next in line for the presidency. Complete nuts like Bachman are not denounced, but encouraged. This is the face of conservatives. Truthers are not the face of liberals and are loathed by the liberal mainstream.
Here is a what Sen. Richard Shelby, R-Ala. said when asked about the president’s eligibility at an Alabama town hall meeting back in February. “Well, his father was Kenyan and they said he was born in Hawaii, but I haven’t seen any birth certificate. You have to be born in America to be president.”
Meanwhile Congress Posey of Florida got nine Republican co-sponsors of his bill requiring an investigation into Obama’s eligibility to be president. Republicans still show up as guests on Beck and Limbaugh’s shows despite their rantings. I wish it weren’t so, but the face of conservatisism is now liars and nut cases.
Aside from that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?
Well of course we would never discount EVERYthing she says. We respect the reasonable and logical stuff. Like the time she said… ummm… you know…
“The invade their countries and convert them” stuff. No, sorry, my bad, that’s not a good example.
There’s the one where she said… uh… I’m drawing a blank here, could you give me a hand with reasonable/logical stuff she’s said? I’m sure there is some, it’s just that it’s a vanishingly small proportion, especially when compared with the batshit crazy stuff that she has spouted.
Interestingly, you have managed to conflate different groups in your need to blame conservatives for all ills. Most Troothers tend to be wing nuts on the far fringe Right, not the Left. The wing nuts on the Left don’t tend to claim that Bush arranged for the attacks or that he hid what really happened, (Rosie O’Donnell notwithstanding), the Lefties tend to say that we “deserved” it.
As to the rest, your claim was in regard to Conservatives, but you keep relying on individuals who are either loony or connected to explicitly Rovian tactics to make your case against a very large and diverse segment of the American population.
I’m sure that Rove steals candy from babies and his success has led a lot of people on the Right to join or emulate him, but when you extend that out to claims that all people with similar poltical philosphies are corrupt, then you demonstrate a lack of judgment.
There has been very little outrage or outcry on the Left regarding the Reverend Wright, and even if, as I believe, most commentary on the Right has twisted and overblown Wright’s actual comments, the Left pretty much sat quietly holding its breath until Obama carefully distanced himself from the most outrageous of Wright’s comments.
The problem is not that no one on the Left makes stupid comments, it is that, at the moment, the Right has done a better job of finding lightning rod speakers, (that the Left foolishly give lots of press), while the Left has a hard time even finding spokespersons for their scattered messages.
That still does not translate into “Conservatives” being unethical and claims that they are just look silly to those of us without a vested interest in either camp.