Again, I don’t agree with that. People have all different skill levels. Some people are comfortable changing out their own water heater while others will call the plumber to light the pilot. I would assume that someone who calls a plumber without even doing a basic check is someone who isn’t comfortable with DIY. All they know is that it’s broken and they don’t know why, how to figure it out, or how to fix it. Who wants to sit around waiting for the plumber? If someone can fix the basic stuff, they’ll likely do it themselves rather than wasting a morning trying to scam the plumber out of a free service call.
Yes he can. If a person requests a contractor do work for them without working out a price beforehand it is reasonable to assume they have agreed to that contractors rate even if they don’t know what that rate is. The amount is not arbitrary if it is consistent with that contractors billing history.
These type of things show up regularly in small claims court and are frequently found in favor of the contractor.
I’m sorry, if someone offers me something for free, and then submits a bill for $120, I feel scammed. As soon as the plumber realized he wanted to do actual work, HE SHOULD HAVE ALERTED THE HOMEOWNER that he could fix the problem, but then it would be a service call, and not a free inspection, and the price would be $120. The homeowner shouldn’t have to follow the plumber around and notice at what point the guy started to do actual work. Nothing can “dawn on you” unless you are aware it is happening.
What sort of “free inspection” of a system that isn’t currently working doesn’t end up with a recommendation that you fix something? If the plumber advertised a “free inspection” with the intention of charging for the fix without first getting the permission of the homeowner, the plumber is a scammer. He should have advertised up front that there would be a $120 service charge if the problem was minor, which would be applied to the final bill if the problem couldn’t be fixed simply.
If the two have a longstanding relationship, maybe the charge should have been understood. If the guy who showed up was brand new and incompetent, maybe it was an honest mistake, and not a scam. But if you offer something for free, there should be some chance that the person actually gets off the hook without paying.
And I live in an expensive neighborhood, and my plumber charges less than $120 for more complex visits than that one.
Again, we don’t really know the details. Maybe the plumber said something and it didn’t make it into the version of the story the neighbor told the OP. But no, a priori, I do not expect to be billed for a free inspection.
But in this case, the homeowner didn’t request the contractor do ANY work, all he asked for (as far as we know) is a free inspection.
I never ask my plumber what he is going to charge, and I always pay whatever he charges, and so far, it’s always been a reasonable amount, consistent with what other highly skilled laborers charge. But my plumber has never told me the work will be free, either.
A agree there is certainly some miscommunication happening. The question is how this should be resolved. I don’t think a reasonable outcome is the plumber receives nothing for his service.
The customer was incapable of resolving this issue themselves and needed a professional to offer an estimate for fixing the issue. They had a reasonable expectation of receiving that estimate. The plumber didn’t offer an estimate and went ahead and resolved the issue. He charged his rate for resolving the issue. The customer needed to pay someone to fix it. The plumbers actions took away thier option to choose who.
The only real question in my mind is if the customer was given the opportunity to choose who performed the service was there less expensive choice that could do so in a reasonable time frame.
Call a few other companies and ask what they would charge to reset an earthquake valve and re-light a pilot. Pay the cost of the lowest estimate offered.
Using the miscommunication as an excuse not to pay anyone is not a reasonable position to me.
It happens all the time that people procure goods or services without explicitly discussing in advance what the price would be; the transaction takes place on the basis of the implied understanding that it would not be free. That’s how I (and, presumably, many other people) do business with craftspeople, minor medical treatments, bartenders when ordering a drink, taxi drivers, and many others. I agree that this way, I run the risk of being presented a bill that I find excessive, but in no such instance may I reasonably assume that the service would be provided entirely free of charge simply because no charge was explicitly mentioned beforehand.
We do know from the OP’s information, however, that the plumber did two minutes of work resetting the valve, plus two and a half minutes re-lighting the pilot (whatever that means). That is clearly more than “just looking at it”, and I presume (but, I admit, that is a presumption on my part which might be wrong) that even though no charge was explicitly discussed, the customer was present in the home at the time this was being done. Maybe not standing next to the plumber all the time, but in the same home and within the range where they could realise that work was about to be done that would exceed a mere inspection. As soon as they realised that, they should have intervened and asked about the price; I find it perfectly reasonable for the plumber to interpret failure to do so as consent to a contractual arrangement under which the customer would be charged the plumber’s usual rates. Yers, I know, tacit consent is always a tricky argument in law, but in everyday situations like this it is usually accepted by courts.
I fully agree that there was a misunderstanding, and that this was unfortunate for everybody involved, especially the customer. But can a customer reasonably assume that a plumber who offered a free inspection but does more than that would do so for free? I don’t think so; that is not how businesses stay in business. I have been in a very similar situation where I called a plumber to look at my heating, and the plumber did a very minor thing that took a minute or so. Afterwards, I asked how much I owed him, and he said that was free. I was, of course, happy, but I would have fully accepted a bill based on the usual rates if he had presented it to me.
Every time I read this thread title I think it’s about dock workers.
You’d think so, wouldn’t you? One of my frequent rants is customers that mentally append " for free" to every request they make, much in the same way that they add " in bed" to the wisdom imparted by the fortune cookie. I need your help, can you come to my house and take a look…for free
The equipment that my company services is very specialized - we can’t be found in any yellow pages or yelp searches. And we do not do free service evaluations for several reasons.
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While we may only be at your house for a few minutes, it takes us up to an hour to get to you from our last appointment and up to an hour to get to the next one.
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The skills my technicians possess are specialized and they are paid accordingly. I’m not paying someone $75 an hour to do free evaluations.
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The big one, and what most people forget. While your plumbing or electricity or stove may be rather mysterious to you, it is not mysterious at all to the person servicing it - one hopes, at least. When you call us we will ask you a few questions about the problem. They may not seem relevant to you and some people don’t like to answer them. But once you answer we will probably know exactly what the problem is and what needs to be done to fix it. We don’t need to SEE your widget to determine what’s wrong with it. We have seen dozens of widgets with the same problem that yours has. We can come in and fix it with one visit.
I even forget this myself when I am on the other end of the transaction. Recently my refrigerator stopped working. The repairman asked me what the problem was and I said “it has power, the lights work, but the compressor isn’t running”. So the repairman comes in with one small part in hand, diagnoses the problem in 3 minutes and installs the replacement relay in 5 minutes. I’m like " how did you do that." And he says -" I knew what was wrong from your description". I didn’t see that at all but this guy sees broken refrigerators every day.
That said, unless you are dealing with a very small company, the service call was usually arranged by someone other than the guy whose doing the work. I would never penalize the guy in the field for non- payment.
Now, we are VERY clear about our rates when we are setting appointments, and some people get offended by this but it avoids problems. But many customers just actively try to avoid a clear " meeting of the minds" regarding payment and I try to avoid them - they are usually trouble
This is the entire point as I see it and what has caused the problem described in the OP. All the posts justifying why a contractor should charge for their services are missing the issue; of course customers should pay for work done and workers should get paid for the work they do. But it must be made clear to the customer what is “work” , under what circumstance will it be charged, how much, and an opportunity to accept the terms or not be presented. That’s the deal making/negotiating part of the business transaction, and the responsibility of the contractor or company offering the service.
An attitude on the part of a service provider of “show up, do work, get paid” with little to no customer interaction invariably leads to disagreements like this. And after work is done and a bill handed over, the only power the customer has is refusal to pay. I don’t think most people who don’t want to pay view that as the final outcome, but rather as a negotiating tactic to resolve the issue (afterwhich they’d pay either the full amount or some portion of it).
Yes, there are dishonest customers who try to use unclear negotiations as an excuse to get free work… but remember these are scammers. There are examples of the reverse as well. But I’d say the most common cause of problems like this is a lack of attention in the negotiation part of the deal. I’d say it should be the contractor making their billing practices crystal clear to the customer… they are the ones wanting to get money. If you’re going to demand a stranger give you money, you’d better have a good case as to why. If I showed up on your lawn and started pulling weeds and tidying up, then handed you a bill for $50 for my time, there’s no way I’d expect you to actually pay me.
There can be pushy tactics used by businesses to get extra money from people which they don’t deserve. When I was having temporary power hooked up to my house, the electrical contracting company came out and did the job wrong, then left. When I found out they did it wrong and told them they cheerfully came back and did it right… and later handed me 2 bills. I refused to pay for the extra screw-up work they did… then they turned argumentative and insisted that they make a profit on the initial screw up and actually tried to justify it by stating they didn’t know the regulations and how to do the work the first time. I still didn’t pay and they mumbled and sent me a proper bill. That’s an example of a shitty company and not what’s happening here, but just to show that’s refusing to pay isn’t always the result of a cheap scammy customer.
If someone offers me a free inspection/estimate/etc., I expect that I will have the option to shop for another contractor. I don’t expect the guy to just do the work without telling me he is about to do that.
And I think it’s relevant that $120 sounds steep for a simple short visit. If the charge had been $60, the homeowner might still have been pissed at the bait&switch, but would be more likely to have paid, I suspect.
then you have nothing significant in common with the plumber in this situation. I’m sure that it was the claim of a “free inspection” followed by a bill for $120 that led to the disagreement.
When I’ve called a service provider for the first time, they generally tell me what their minimum fee is to come to my house.
This is certainly relevent. The question is whether the rate is consistent with the regular rates for the area. In my area they got off cheap. In other people’s areas they were overcharged. $120 could be the correct charge for the service.
Most common rates for plumbers in my area is $100-$125hr with a 2 hour minimum. The standard is becoming $50-$75 for an on site estimate.
My rate is $150hr +$50hr per apprentice. $150 is my minimum charge. Regular service and troubleshooting doesn’t require an apprentice so even if one is present the customer doesn’t get charged for them.
Plumbers also charge double for emergency service which includes during regular business hours. If you want them to fix an issue same day it’s certainly possible they will charge you $400 bucks to leave the job they are on, fix your ten minute issue and go back to what they were doing.
I only charge emergency rates to customers that are particularly difficult. Call me on a weekend if I’m around I’ll go over and take care of it at my regular rate. Call me at 2am and demand I get you running water for your 7am shower I’m going to charge $300hr
Thanks, everyone, for a very interesting discussion!