I was starting to write a post in this threadabout how we don’t need to re-visit the origin of Superman since everyone is familiar with the nuts and bolts of his coming to Earth etc., but then I thought about my co-workers, and realized I had no clue what they did or did not know about Superman or Batman etc. as I would likely never have these conversations with them at work.
Is the average non-fan person really going have a handle on any of these characters origins othen than whatever they have seen in the movies?
I think most people are at least going to have a vague idea of the origins of heroes like Superman, Batman, and Spider-Man. They might not know as many details as a fan but they’ll know the basics. Superman in particular has been a radio show, multiple television programs, television cartoons, pre-show movie cartoon, etc., and, I would argue, is a cultural icon. An American who doesn’t know Bruce Wayne became Batman because he witnessed the death of his parents has been living in a cave for a very very long time.
Some famous comic book characters including the Flash, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, the X-Men, and the Fantastic Four are all recognizable but I don’t think most non-fans have a clue as to their origins. Hell, I used to read comic books and I had no idea there were multiple Flash or Green Lanterns for the longest time.
I think most people know about Batman, Superman, Spider-Man, and The Hulk. Their origins have been covered in comics, movies, tv shows, animated shows, and every way possible. I would almost put Wolverine in the same tier as the above, but most non-comic people don’t know his origin because he didn’t have one for so long. Weapon X by Barry Windsor Smith was all the origin he needed, but that’s another thread.
Batman Begins and Spider-Man are the only movies that I felt did the origins right. Most origin movies are boring and don’t develop the character very well. The person gets powers and then quickly adapts and fights, and sometimes kill, their best known enemy. A good origin will mostly focus on the character evolving. In Batman Begins, he’s not even Batman for the first half of the movie and he makes a lot of mistakes before he’s finally ready to take on someone bigger than street thugs. I think Bruce develops Batman for about a year before he takes on Ra’s.
Most origin movies make it seem like they get their powers the same week their enemy gets his powers and then after a few days, they battle.
I actually wrote almost exactly that in the linked thread:
So yea, I think in Superman’s case, the basic gist of his origins are pretty close to universally known (at least in the States, another poster in the thread pointed out that American action movies rely on an international audience, and I don’t know how well known he is outside the US). He’s been around since my parents were kids, so there isn’t a generation gap, unlike more modern characters, and he’s had several pretty popular TV shows, radio shows, and movies over the decades.
Batman’s a little less well known, but has been around for about as long as Superman, and has had several more, and very successful recent films go over his origin story, so you can probably assume people know where he came from.
Beyond those two, its probably less universal, but most of the people who are likely to actually go see a new superhero movie will probably know where Spiderman, the Hulk. Beyond that, you probably can’t assume that the people seeing your new film know where the character comes from.
I’m one. Superman and Batman, no problem. Captain America and Thor? I have no clue. Mind, FWIW, I couldn’t tell you about the Flash, or Green Lantern, or the Fantastic Four, either. Over 40, BTW.
Does Thor have an origin beyond “He’s a god”? If so, I don’t know it. And I know Captain America’s origin, but only by virtue of being a nerd: It’s really not out there in the public consciousness.
It’s difficult enough gauging what’s common knowledge within one’s own culture, let alone internationally. But if I had to guess, I’d say that that – on the whole – Superman and Batman are about as well-known worldwide as Mickey Mouse, or very nearly. I certainly think that just about anywhere that the studio might expect a Superman film to make money, there’s already a basic level of familiarity, even among people who don’t read comics or see superhero movies.
Yeah, after those two it drops off sharply. You’d probably find a lot of people recognised Captain America and Wonder Woman by sight, but didn’t really know much about them. Even Wolverine, who’s been var-nigh ubiquitous in Marvel comics for getting on for thirty years, isn’t anywhere near as well-known among the general public.
From memory, Marvel’s version of Thor was stripped of his memories and his hammer by Odin for some reason I’ve forgotten, and placed in the feeble body of Dr. Donald Blake. While visiting Norway, he becomes trapped in a cave. In desperation/frustration, he banged an odd looking stick against the ground or a boulder, and thereby transformed into his true form with full powers. The odd looking stick just happened to be Mjolnir.
Brit here, didn’t have a clue about Thor’s origins and don’t know much about him in comic terms at all. Cap America, I think I know. Wasn’t he given a super serum duting WWII to try and create the perfect soldier or something?
I’m fairly observant about pop culture and have watched a lot of movie adaptations of comic books, but I really don’t know a lot of backstories and what I might learn, I am likely to forget.
I think most people who aren’t devoted comic or movie buffs would be more like me.
I know Clark Kent = Superman. I know he came from another planet as a baby. That’s about it.
Bruce Wayne = Batman, but the parents killed thing wouldn’t be something I remembered without prompting.
Spiderman I do know.
Captain America? Thor? No. There is a good chance most people might not have even heard of them, much less know origin stories. I don’t know anything about Thor.
The first time I knew anything about X-men was the movie. I’m not entirely sure I knew that the comic existed on a conscious level before that.
So I think the estimation of comic characters by the average person who is a non-fan is being greatly exaggerated here. I think a lot of people tend to be like me: mostly clueless and oblivious, even we watch the occasional adaptation.
Superman and Batman are pervasive in the culture. People will usually get references to them.
Spider-Man is the closest thing to that for Marvel, but I don’t think he’s as well known. When my wife saw the movie, she clearly enjoyed the scene where he let the small-time crook get away; if you knew the origin at all, you knew better than to laugh at it.
No one else comes close. They might be aware of the character names, but little more.
Yes - although I’d think the fact he was declared 4F, which is why he volunteered to accept the serum - he couldn’t serve any other way - would be fairly important, too.
Thor, I couldn’t tell you.
DC I’m better on, though there are still plenty I’d have to Wiki.
For the ones that I could expect the general public to know the basics of their origins…Superman, Batman…probably Spider-Man and Wonder Woman.
I doubt the Hulk, actually…they’d KNOW him…they’d know how his powers activated…I’m not sure if they’d know how he got them, though.
Robin, I think is an interesting case - I’d say most people would know Dick’s origin - and I wouldn’t be surprised if some portion of them didn’t know his name - but they wouldn’t realize that the comics and DCAU have given us multiple Robins, and most wouldn’t know Jason, Tim, or Steph’s origins, even if they had some inkling that they existed. (And I suspect pre-Crisis Jason would cause some eye-rolling.)
I should expand upon this, I think…when I say ‘the basics’, I mean ‘the basics’.
ie:
Superman - sent to Earth by his parents, when Krypton exploded. Raised on a farm by the Kents. Moved to Metropolis as an adult and became a reporter. (And superhero)
Batman - witnessed the murders of his parents, inherited a lot of money, spent many years training, became the Batman.
Spider-Man - bitten by a radioactive spider. … I think it probably ends there for him. Maybe they’ll know the bit with Uncle Ben’s death, but I doubt it.
Wonder Woman - born and raised in a society of Amazons, left and became a hero.
Robin - parents were murdered, adopted by Bruce Wayne, became Robin.
Arrogance. In the one Thor comic I ever owned, it was revealed that Don Blake has always been Thor and that Odin put Thor into Blake mode, i.e., a crippled physician, to learn humility. Apparently, there had been an outstanding question of what had happened to Thor if Blake had “become” Thor…
…as to the OP, I have found that ~2 people in 100 know anything about geeky stuff, including comics. There is a fuzzy line as to what comic-book canon knowledge has “crossed over” to mainstream, but when in doubt, scale it down unless we are in the middle of a blockbuster movie release and the story is getting hyped…
I’ve never been a comic book person, but I am fairly aware of the big heroes like Superman and Batman etc. because I have seen the TV shows and movies.
As a kid I remember watching some Captain America show or movies that were on TV, so I knew of him but couldn’t tell you his origin. So if a movie or TV show was made about him or some of the smaller, less known heroes and the backstory was completely changed, it wouldn’t bother me as long as it was well made and interesting.
Heck, I wouldn’t mind seeing Superman’s story completely re-done along some of the line mentioned in the Superman thread. It would alienate a lot of hard core fans, but again, if it was well made and interesting, it wouldn’t bother me at all.
Even as far as origins go, the average person probably doesn’t know or care why Bruce Wayne dresses in leather fetish-wear at night to beat up crooks. That is, the murder of his parents is not the first thing a person thinks of when seeing Batman. Rich playboy by day, masked avenger by night, that they know.
Even if they recognize Captian America, they will never have hear dof the Super Soldier Serum. And it doesn’t matter.
I’m a big fan of the 60/70s Marvel characters as a child/teen etc but I think most replies understimate how little the general publics knowledge of these things -
I suspect they don’t know and even if they have heard of them or watch the films etc - don’t care that much.
