Do Hindu Gods Really Have Multiple Arms?

Factual Questions
1

I keep coming back in admiration and awe to the famous statue of the Dancing Shiva. It is beautiful, inspiring, elegant, and haunting.

But how much is it intended to be taken literally, and how much is abstract symbology? Would a typical Hindu theologian say, “Oh, that’s just a formal iconography,” or “Well, yes, he actually could wield four swords at one time on the battlefield?” Or something in between, or something so very different that I’m only making myself look foolish by asking?

(I have a strong suspicion it may be the last…)

Ganesh seems actually to have an elephant’s head. Krishna seems actually to be blue. Kali seems actually to have a lolling tongue and fangs. But how about those arms?

(Obviously, all of this is within the context of belief and faith and the Hindu religion and its many, perhaps varying, interpretations. Please help keep this OUT of Great Debates, and limit answers, I beg of you in all civility, to what is held by the religious faithful. I’m terribly ignorant, and only want to learn.)

Trinopus (also has a Venus of Milo)

2

Yes.

3

Yes, they do, or yes, I’m being foolish, or maybe yes both?

But…thank you! I had always been curious.

Trinopus (does not have three eyes…)

4

Yes to everything. Hinduism is mutable and changes from person to person and house to house. Of course they have four arms, and of course it is only symbolic, and of course Shiva fights with two arms or four, as the parable requires.

Ganesh is supposed to have an elephant’s head, yes. Krishna is blue; I’ve heard tell it’s because he was one of the Native Indians and not an Aryan, so the Aryans called him blue instead of admitting a great man (God) comes from the equivalent of the local peasant stock. Myself, I used to be an adamant worshiper of Krishna, and still hold a great deal of fondness for the stories, so I don’t much like to inject realism into them.

Oh, and yes you are being foolish, too - Wikipedia is actually a surprisingly good starting point, but that’s OK. :slight_smile:

My e-mail’s in my profile if you want to talk more. I don’t mind.

5

The answer to every question in Hinduism is “yes” and “no.”

(Dangit, 'Mika! Sneaked in first! :wink: )

6

Not only Hindu Gods – several Buddhist figures are routinely depicted with multiple arms as well. Some are shown with 100 arms, arranged radially and forming a circle. In fact, you can use the number of arms and their other attributes to determine which figure you’re looking at. See Alice Getty’s wonderfuil book The Gods of Northern Buddhism for details.

7

In general, gods aren’t bound by the same constraints of literalism as us mere mortals. What does it mean to say that Shiva has four arms? Well, what does it mean to say that a god has arms at all? If a god is everywhere, wouldn’t that imply that the god’s shape is the same as the shape of the Universe? If the arms are metaphorical to begin with, then surely the number of arms depends on the metaphor in question.

8

Tee-hee!

9

Depends what you mean by “really.”

10

To elaborate a little more –

It’s not easy to get a grasp of what Hinduism is and how it works without spending a lot of time with different kinds of Hindus. It’s really a case of the more you know, the more you know how little you know. Get to know one Hindu family well and you’ll get a good idea of what Hinduism is from their perspective, but I would caution you not to accept much of that knowledge as universally applying to Hindus generally.

Hinduism has no source of ultimate authority, no universally accepted Torah, Bible, or Koran. Hinduism has no founder or universally accepted prophet, no Abraham, no Moses, no Jesus, no Mohammed. Hinduism has no universally accepted baseline of beliefs or dogma or practices. Hinduism has no borders.

I’ll tell you some widely accepted, but not even then universal, baselines. A Hindu is born, not made. A Hindu doesn’t stop becoming a Hindu by practicing other religions.

Hinduism has at least three categories of gods – Vedic (Indra, Yama, Agni, Rudra, Vayu, Varuna, etc.), Hindu (Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva, Durga, Sarasvati, Lakshmi, Ganesh, Karttik, etc.), “local” gods (Murugan, Venkateshwara, Nataraja, Jaggannath, Sheetal, Ganapati, etc.).

It’s not even clear to what extent these gods are separate entities or personalities. Are Durga, Parvati, Sarasvati, Lakshmi, and Kali separate goddesses or are they all just different aspects of the Goddess (Devi). If the latter, how can it be that Sarasvati and Lakshmi are the daughters of Parvati (sometimes Durga). Are Parvati and Durga the same goddess or different? Are Durga and Kali the same goddess or different? If the latter, how do Durga and Kali both go into battle together against the forces of Chaos?

Hinduism has at least three “trinities” – Brahma-Vishnu-Maheshvar (Shiva), Shiva-Vishnu-Devi, Sarasvati-Lakshmi-Parvati.

The “local” gods are almost always identified with one member of the Shiva-Vishnu-Devi trinity. Thus, is Venkateshvara simply a “form” of Vishnu? Well, really, he was a completely independent mythological figure who much later got classified as “a Vishnu god.”

Are Krishna and Rama merely “avatars” of Vishnu? Or are they gods on their own, worthy of individual worship? Is Hanuman merely a monkey, a monkey-man companion of Rama or is he a god worthy of worship on his own? Are Rama and Sita together separate entities or are they merely Vishnu and Lakshmi? (And what about Sita’s husband?)

Lakshmi is Vishnu’s consort and Parvati is Shiva’s consort … but, wait, aren’t Parvati and Lakshmi both Devi? … but, wait, isn’t Lakshmi the daughter of Parvati/Durga? But, wait, isn’t Kali Shiva’s consort?

Which are the true Hindus? Shaivites (Shiva worshippers), Vaishnavites (Vishnu/Krishna/Rama-Sita worshippers), Shakti-ites (Goddess worshippers), and Smart-ites (who believe in a universal Brahman). Vaishnavites believe in vegetarianism. Shaivites and Shakti-ites believe in blood sacrifice. Many Hindus claim to be more than one of these.

Hinduism really isn’t a single religion. It’s an amalgamation of many sets of beliefs – the Vedic religion of the Aryans, who worshipped Indra, the sky/warror/king, very much like Zeus or Jehovah – the Sanatana Dharma of the pre-Aryan peoples, who believed in an all-encompassing Brahman – later Hindu mythologies of Shiva, Vishnu, and company – absorbed “local” gods and religions who were often assimiliated or co-opted by identification with a major Hindu god – “reform” movements, like Buddhism, Jainism, and Sikhism – modern reformers, like Ramakrishna or Vivekananda, who tried to make Hinduism more westernized (“See, it’s not really polytheism!”) – ongoing personality cults (Hare Krishnas, Sai Baba, etc.).

Does Vishnu have four arms? Is Hinduism really polytheistic or is apparent polytheism merely a metaphor operating in underlying monotheism or universalism? Every Hindu will give you a different answer. A Hindu seeking to gain acceptance for Hinduism in a Western culture will very likely go the “it’s not really polytheism” route. However, the majority of Hindus, living in India, with little contact with western ideas or highfalutin’ theology believe and behave as if multiple arms and polytheism are literally true. Which one is right? Well, both.

Were Krishna and Sita lovers? Well, there’s a test that describes in exquisite detail how much fun Krishna had with his penis, not only with Sita (married to another man, I remind you), but with all the local milkmaids. Then again, someone told me with a straight face that all that sex-talk was merely metaphorical, and Sita and all those milkmaids loved Krishna only spiritually.

I, like 'Mika, would be happy to entertain further questions. And I’d welcome them in this thread, just so you can see how everyone will give you different answers to all your questions.

11

But others worthies are shown as blue, right? Wife claims they possess Krishna Virtue, but that might be from Hare Krishna.

12

Krishna and Sita?

The major blue guys are Vishnu, Rama, and Krishna, the latter two both being avatars of the first one. I’m not aware of anyone else being blue, but there’s lots I’m unaware of.

13

Radha! Good heavens. Ram would be rather upset, and confused. Excellent post otherwise.

And I think of course he had sex with them. Krishna was politically savvy and very sharp. He didn’t preach naivete or abstinence. I think he had a full relationship in every sense of the word.

14

Thank you all, especially anaamika and acsenray!

(panache45: I’m still trying to figure out what the definition of “is” is!)

I’ve definitely looked at Wikipedia, but I think I was really asking the wrong kind of question in the first place. (Perhaps akin to asking, “Does the host really transubstantiate into the body of Christ?”) (Perhaps?)

Anyway, I can see that I can’t approach these questions in a Platonic/Aristotelian/ Baconian/Newtonian fashion! I can see why quantum physics is sometimes used as a metaphor for the Hindu gods!

But…I do so very much admire the artistry, the sculpture and painting, that people have been inspired to create, in interpretation of these divinities!

Thank you! I have, perhaps, taken one step away from the dwarf of ignorance. (Or toward?)

Trinopus

15

I hoped you glanced at the wiki page on Mudra which gives a more down to earth explanation, which is not to say a lot is not symbolic or artistic in nature.

16

Yes I know Radha-Krishna Sita-Ram. I realized my goof after posting :smack:

17

Well, there goes my ‘they’re just moving really fast, like the guys in Matrix’-theory…

18

You are talking to a Krishna lover, of course. :slight_smile: I would totally have been one of His gopis and fawned all over him.

Trinopus, in a way you are making it more complicated than it seems. I’m atheist, but I still consider myself Hindu at the core. It’s hard to define, but I never stopped being Hindu no matter what. Even if I convert to another religion, which will probably not happen, as our friend says, I’ll still be Hindu.

What I mean to say is, whatever interpretation you get is not necessarily wrong. You say you are awed and inspired by the Dancing Shiva, the Destroyer of Worlds. That’s fine. Myself, I think the mythology is stunningly beautiful and in-depth - way more complicated than even the Greek gods.

For example, do you know why Ganesh has an elephant head? Or why Shiva dances? Or what happens when he does his Tandev Nritya (dance to end worlds)? Why Rati & Kamdev danced in front of Shiva’s meditation and what happened to them?

Ganesh: here is the version of the story I have heard. Parvati, Shiva’s wife, wanted a baby boy more than anything. So she created one of out soil, imbued it with life, and named it Ganesh - with a human head and body. When he was older, she one day set the boy to guarding her bath. Shiva came home, and was astonished at this interloper in his house. When Ganesh would not let him pass to Parvati, Shiva drew his bow and slew the boy, cutting his head off. When Parvati saw this, of course she was heartbroken, so to assauge her, Shiva went and fetched the head of an elephant to replace it, and brought the boy back to life. And Ganesh is known as the remover of all obstacles, so we pray to him before anyone else. Often when you enter a Hindu temple there will be a Ganesh statue at the door, so you may pray to him first.

Shiva is also known as the Natraj, or King of Dance. He is called the Eternal Dancer, in fact. His dance, the Tandav Nritya, is said to bring about the end of the worlds. In plays and culture it is depicted that when he dances this dance, the only one who can stop him is Parvati, who dances the dance Lasya, which expresses feminine beauty and grace.

Rati-Kamdev are the king and queen of love and lust in Hindu mythology. It is said that one spring, in full bloom, Rati and Kamdev danced through the woods, bringing everything to life. They found Shiva, meditating in a 1000 year trance, and began to dance in front of him. (Yes, this is exactly what you think it is - far filthier than the words themselves.) They broke Shiva’s trance, and in rage, he opened his Third Eye and reduced Kamdev to ashes. Heartbroken and grief-stricken, Rati pleaded for her husband’s life. Shiva partially relented. He brought Kamdev back, but without a physical form, so Rati can always feel his presence, but can never see him. And so Kamdev lives in all of us.
The reason I tell you these stories is of course just to tell them, but also to show you that you can be Hindu in any way you want. I feel joy in relating these little stories and sharing the mythology and culture of my religion, and generally ignore the deeper philosophy and such.

Slightly off-topic, when I was a child and a teen, most of the temples I was in had this: There was a time during “services” each day, when the adults would do Gita study. During this time the children would be taken aside, in the basement, and taught these old stories and legends. I’ve often thought this should be done in Catholic churches, too! It seems foolish to expect children to sit and listen to a priest drone on in Latin and not understand a thing…how are they going to learn what their religion really means? But that’s just my two cents.

19

Christians have Sunday school for just that reason, 'Mika. Although that may be more a Protestant thing.

Fascinating thread, but all the good answers have been given already so on a tangent let me just say that although

Triops does.

20

I have to say that, despite my mild snark above, I think this is a really nice, interesting, and enjoyable thread. I don’t really know the first thing about Hindu mythology, but I really liked reading the stories, Acsenray and Anaamika.