So, yesterday I witnessed a minor-damage hit-and-run. Two women in a big, black SUV (:smack: does it really have to conform to a bad stereotype?) tried to parallel park, and their front end tore off the rear light, red-plastic, cover-lens thing, off the van in front. After scrapping up two or three more times, they gave up and sped off.
Some other witnesses and I, with disgusted indignation, copied down the licence plate and called the cops, who didn’t respond because no pedestrian or bicycle was involved, the van owner wasn’t around, and we all said that it was unlikely that there was more than $40 damage.
And ten minutes later, the two women drove past again, slowly, to check out the damage and see how much trouble they were in, then they sped off again. :mad: Jerks!
So, aside from the bad karma points they just earned for their slimebucketry, are they actually going to get in any doo-doo? Will their insurance company be notifed and their premiums go up? Any kind of ticket in the mail? Or do they just get away with being jerks?
Remarkable. I went through an almost similar scenario a few months ago. Saw an accident as a minivan tried to park, saw the driver panic speed off, called the police with the license plate. Only in my case, an officer responded. While I was waiting for the police, to make this scenario even more similar, the driver came back to see the damage. She couldn’t see it from inside her van (it was pretty minor–her van took the brunt of it) so she kept driving.
The police officer I met with took it very seriously. He and I both empathized with the woman because who hasn’t been in that situation–one little dumbass thing and bingo you’ve damaged a car. But damnit, when you hit a car, you STOP. There was no doubt that a report was filed and she was contacted. Maybe it depends on the town? I live in a city of about 100,000 people without a lot of violent crime.
Jonathan Chance well, heck yeah, the van owner knows. We left a message on his winshield (luckily after the jerks drove past the second time, otherwise they probably would’ve swiped the note.) So the van driver has all the details on the SUV, a description of the dirvers, and the list of witnesses who gave their phone numbers. (He called last night, really nice guy too.)
But what can he do about it? We already called the cops (who were only mildly interested in “whcih way did they go?”) He’s going to go and get a copy of our report, but since the damage is likely way, way below his deductible, do his insurace company and/or the cops even really care?
(I’m hoping so, because I’d hate to think jerks like that might have gotten away/get away with worse damage in the past/future.)
A few years ago I came out of my apartment to go to work and saw that I had been the victim of a hit and run, some agressively bad parallel parking was my guess. A witness had left the license plate but no contact info. The cops didn’t care but the insurance company had a field day with the info. They contacted the owner of the hit and run car and demanded payment for the damages. To emphasize their point, they put a hold on his registration such that he couldn’t get new tabs until the insurance company was satisfied.
I think that’s what annoyed all of us witnesses so much. Here was a big, shiny (and brand new model) SUV, that caused very little damage and they didn’t even leave a note saying “oh, I’m so sorry, I’ll buy you a new light plastic thingy.” The van guy will probably be out about $30 or $40, the bulb wasn’t even broken, and there’s some black paint smeared/scratched against the back corner (not even a dent).
The van guy sounded disappointed over the phone, mostly because of the lack of common courtesy (and they could has caused more damage, they were just lucky.)
The population here is around 5 million, the cops have better things to do than go after a couple boneheads in an SUV – hence I’m wondering if they just get to go off and repeat their little performance elsewhere.
I think the party at fault’s insurance is responsible for the damage, regardless of the amount or the deductible. I think when you are at fault, or it is a comprehensive claim (such as flood damage), your deductible applies. If I’m right about this, the injured party’s insurance will be able to track down the accused’s insurance, and go to bat for him.
I worked in an auto claims office once, but it was a long time ago. Anyone with more recent/ accurate info care to clarify?
I once backed into someone’s van in a shopping center parking lot, left my own insurance & contact info in a note, and they were able to make the claim against my insurance, no problem. My insurance went up substantially, but apparently I did $1800 of damage to the door???
Back when I was in grad school, a woman I was dating sideswiped a parked car while driving home late at night. She claimed she was so exhausted that she didn’t even notice she’d hit the other car, and didn’t know what happened until the following day. If I recall correctly, there was more damage to the other car than in the OP, but not hugely so.
The police eventually found her (she may have called them the next morning and reported it), and she was charged with “leaving the scene of an accident”. She was allowed to go through a diversion program instead of receiving a conventional sentence.
So, yes, hit-and-run does have criminal consequences.
Harriet I’m in Ontario, does it make a difference i there is a no-fault insurance system?
I want them to have their comeuppance, dammit! Ideally, I wish the van owner would be allowed to go over to thier house and give them a swift kick in the shins. But in the absence of any forthcoming shin-kickery, I want to be assured that their insurance company will at least chew them out over the phone and threaten to raise their rates for being irresposible boobs!
Victim’s insurance won’t be able to get involved until the damage exceeds any collision deductible the victim may have on the auto policy.
Suzzbagg’s insurance company (assuming there is one!) is on the loss from dollar 1 (Canadian or American) under her Liability coverage.
So here’s the game plan:
Victim calls Scuzzbagg and says, “Gimme the name of your insurance company. I have witnesses to the accident if you wanna start denying responsibility.”
Victim calls Scuzzbagg’s Insurance company and proceeds with repairs.
If there is a God, Scuzzbagg’s insurance company will be VERY unimpressed with their customer’s wanton disregard of traffic laws and cancels the policy in anticipation of future irresponsibility (they can do this–it is a little-known fact that most insurance companies have a special department staffed with people specially trained in swift shin-kicking).
Under NO circumstances should the victim attempt to handle the claim without the victims’ insurance invlovement. The reasons are numerous, but boil down to 1) victim can totally get screwed 2) scuzzbagg deserves to be penalized in as many ways possible for being…what was the term…a “jerk.”
It’s not clear to me it this – …the rear light, red-plastic, cover-lens thing… – describes one, two, or three pieces, but I find this – …unlikely that there was more than $40 damage. – to be pretty optimistic. On some vehicles, one simple lens assembly will cost two to four times that much.
Matchka – so how does the whole “no-fault” thing work? (It’s been explained to me before, but I still don’t get it.)
FTR - the Victim Van guy, who seemed really nice on the phone, was going to get a report from the police to pursue it through the insurance company.
But won’t they get a traffic ticket? Demerit points? Stern talking to from cops? Lump of a coal from Santa at Christamas? Or do the police need to catch the driver behind the wheel in order to ticket / arrest / demerit / shin-kick the SUV driver?
(I’m thinking that if the SUV belongs to someone whose wife/daughter/aunt was driving it at the time of the accident, it would be unjust for the owner to get a ticket in the mail later on.)
“Under Kansas law, a hit-and-run conviction can result in a penalty of a month in jail and a $500 fine. The maximum penalty increases to a year in jail and a $2,500 fine if the accident involves injury or death.”
“Leaving the scene of an accident is a class B misdemeanor. The maximum penalty would be 180 days in jail and a fine not to exceed $1,000. The standard sentence normally given in Huntington County Superior Court for leaving the scene of an accident is the same as a DWI conviction except that the driving privileges are suspended for a period of 180 days rather than 90 days.”
True, I must confess my estimate may be way off, I was guessing based on the time I busted my own.
The whole lens assembly was not damaged, it remains perfectly intact. The top lens popped out in one perfect piece, but then shattered when it hit the ground. Otherwise, he’d have been able to pick it up and snap it back into place.
I was able to replace my red, plastic lens myself, buying a replacement from a junkyard for $25. His is a not-so-new, domestic utility van. It’s very comon so it shouldn’t be too hard to find a replacement at a reasonable price. Unless he’s really mechanically inept, he should be able to click it into place quite easily.
If on the other hand, there’s more damage than what we noticed, the guy’s gonna be really mad and in a serious shin-kicking mood!
True, I must confess my estimate may be way off, I was guessing based on the time I busted my own.
The whole lens assembly was not damaged, it remains perfectly intact. The top lens popped out in one perfect piece, but then shattered when it hit the ground. Otherwise, he’d have been able to pick it up and snap it back into place.
I was able to replace my red, plastic lens myself, buying a replacement from a junkyard for $25. His is a not-so-new, domestic utility van. It’s very comon so it shouldn’t be too hard to find a replacement at a reasonable price. Unless he’s really mechanically inept, he should be able to click it into place quite easily.
If on the other hand, there’s more damage than what we noticed, the guy’s gonna be really mad and in a serious shin-kicking mood!
Matchka – so how does the whole “no-fault” thing work? (It’s been explained to me before, but I still don’t get it.)
My pleasure. No Fault refers to Injury claims. Not really relevant to this one, but since you asked….
First: LIABILITY insurance is what all of us responsible drivers (have to) pay for. It takes care of our victims’ injuries and property damage. Without getting into the specifics of “limits,” we carry 2 kinds of LIABILITY insurance: Bodily Injury (BI) and Property Damage (PD). Pretty self-explanatory, yes? So If I bash a parked car with my elephantine, gasoline-swilling, politically-incorrect, socially, and environmentally irresponsible SUV…where was I? Oh yeah…MY PD LIABILITY insurance will take care of the damage I cause to that car. If, in the process of executing the above maneuver, I cause Bodily Injury to someone (or if I just run ‘em down because I’ve failed to take into account the increased braking distance of my EGSPISEI SUV) my BI LIABILITY insurance will pay for those damages.
“No-Fault” when I have encountered it refers only to medical injuries and as far as I can tell refers to nothing else. The idea is that we will all take responsibility for insuring against our own injuries that arise out of a car crash. Why this is a good idea is based on the nature of how LIABILITY claims are paid. See, when I run you down in the intersection, I owe you for your BI. Your BI claim will consist of actual medical and related costs (Special) as well as possibly “intangible” expenses like pain/suffering/loss of consortium (General). The amount you can expect to get paid for your General BI claim depends on the size and nature of your Special BI Claim (you’re not getting a ton of boo-hoo money if all you had was an ambulance ride with no ER treatment). In order for you to be fairly paid for your whole BI claim, the insurer needs to be able to look at ALL the facts before finalizing a settlement. This can take a long time if you’re severely injured and are receiving treatment months or YEARS after the accident…all that time, you are not getting paid because ALL the facts are not in…and the insurance company would like you to please hurry up with ALL the facts, so payment is withheld until you say you are done.
THAT means you could be left sitting on your medical bills (specials) for a long time. Your Health Insurance carrier won’t pay because an Auto Insurance company has accepted liability and will pay the expenses…later…but the doctors, ambulance drivers & hospital want payment as expenses are incurred! What to do? Your credit gets hosed and all you did was get run over!
Enter: No Fault [FANFARE & Image of Superhero with cape flapping majestically in the breeze]. The coverage we can buy (in some states/provinces) to take care of medical costs as they are incurred. Because you are paying for the coverage, it kicks in irrespective of who is at fault in the accident (just like you can file a collision claim even though it was I who crushed your puny little girly-car with my EGSPISEI SUV). You can still file a BI claim for your General claim, but now you don’t have to deal directly with the debtors. Oh yeah, it ALSO protects you from jerks who drive uninsured and walk away from injury claims because they’re deabeats who don’t have any assets to sue for and little if any future earnings potential to garnish.
There are problems with No Fault, but those deserve their own post/pit
But, to thoroughly confuse matters, my bank discusses the Ontario “no-fault” stuff here which seems to say that property damage is included.
twitch… Confusion… returning… twitch
But back to the OP… Eureka! Took me awhile, but I found this at the Ministry of Ontario’s website:
Emphasis, yours truly. Okay, so fine and dandy. This one is (probably) not a must-report collision. Nonetheless, if I understand that correctly, they still must have coughed up their info, and they are still guilty of fleeing the scene. They’ve officially done a Very Bad Thing.
This much, I’m pretty sure I knew already (aside from the penalty details).
So what I want to know is will the cops actually do anything for a less-than $1000 collision, and who will end up in the doghouse? The cops didn’t catch the driver behind the wheel, so is the owner of the car going to end up with seven demerit points? What if the owner wasn’t the driver? Do they get away with it, if they can’t prove who was behind the wheel? Does the innocent owner get railroaded?
“So what I want to know is will the cops actually do anything for a less-than $1000 collision”
I asked the cops about this after someone did it to my car recently & they said if its under $750 they won’t do a report. One insurance company said they won’t raise insurance rate if it’s under $750.
That’s like here, you don’t need to file a collision report if it’s less than $1000 (although I know people who have filed a report with the Collision Centre “just in case”). And cops don’t come if it’s under $1000 (with exceptions such as injury, pedestrian involvement etc.)
However, if the car takes off and leaves the scene (and couldn’t possibly have known what the damage was at the time that they took off), isn’t that a separate issue? Does it all boil down to the "under $1000=“unworthy” rule? That’s like saying “it’s not illegal to flee the scene if it was cheap to fix” and that doesn’t seem right.
I suppose that’s pretty much the answer though. It’s illegal to leave the scene, but – practically speaking – the cops won’t waste time with the paperwork. Dammit, I want them to be at least scolded! I hope the insurance company kicks them in the shins. Kick 'em!