3 years ago, I moved to England, and now share a house with my Australian girlfriend in London. In January, I can apply for permanent permission to remain, meaning I no longer need a work visa to be legally eligible to work in the UK. I have 2 years left on my work visa. I think this is unlimited, as well, so I can effectively stay as long as I want, but cannot vote or use some public services.
After 4 years, I can apply to be a British Citizen (meaning 1 year from January).
Now here’s the catch - according to the State Department web site, I have to surrender my US citizenship in order to become citizen of another country.
Is this true? Does anyone understand this area of US Law?
I am pretty certain that the US cannot force you to give up your citizenship under any circumstances.
That said the US frowns on it and would rather you just pick one over the other (as they mention if you read further through link).
Also, it may be that the country you seek citizenship in requires you to renounce your prior citizenship. I have no clue if Great Britain has such a requirement but note that the US does (or at least did…I think that may have changed too).
You can get into all sorts of weird things with citizenship. For instance even when the US required renunciation of previous citizenship there was no guarantee the other country recognized it. It has happened where a US citizen travelled to a foreign country and they got stuck there because that country felt they were a citizen and had some obligations to them. It did not matter to them what you thought you were…their laws said you were their citizen. It is for this reason, at least partly, that the US thinks dual citizenship is a bad idea.
Sorry I screwed up the highlighting in my quote above. It was supposed to be: “In order to lose U.S. citizenship, the law requires that the person must apply for the foreign citizenship voluntarily, by free choice, and with the intention to give up U.S. citizenship.”
The relevant part here is you have to essentially prove to the US you intend to give up citizenship (they mention even actions or statements can be enough). However, if you are clear to them you intend to keep US citizenship then you get to keep it no matter how much they might wish otherwise.
I have nothing to ad to this thread except an anecdote.
Back in the middle of the Vietnamese War the word got out among a number of stockade prisoners at a widely detested mid-western army post that if a prisoner denounced his US citizenship the US, and specifically its army, lost the power to confine him for criminal offenses of which he had been convicted. Because there was such a clamor among the inmates the legal officers who serviced the stockade set up a regular little litany for renouncing all allegiance to the US and surrender of citizenship. This went on every Wednesday afternoon for some months until the prisoners started bitching that no one was paying any attention to their claims of immunity from incarceration because they were no longer US citizens. This came to the attention of the provost-marshall and to the post chief of staff who in turn passed the word that it was cruel, almost sadistic, to deceive the credulous in tis manner and that the “pledge of un-allegiance” ceremonies were to stop forthwith or heads would roll.
Don’t forget that is not just what the US says about this. You need to check and see what Great Britain’s policy on dual citizenship is as well. Given that the US and GB are pretty close in terms of laws and outlook as well as considering GB’s old days as a global empire I suspect they are tolerant of dual citizenship but that is just a guess. You definitely need to check-up on that.
If I am in, say, Great Britain and go to the US Embassy and renounce my citizenship am I now countryless? Or is there something in there that makes certain you are a citizen of somewhere (or will be very soon) before letting you undo your current citizenship?
I seem to recall a story of some guy stuck in Charles de Gaulle airport in Paris in a situation like this. IIRC he was countryless and no one would take him. The French would not let him leave the airport as he didn’t have a visa to enter (or something like that) so he was stuck. Presumably he lived there for years and practically became a tourist attraction. Sounds crazy I know but I am near certain it was something like this. Anyone know what I am talking about or do I need to see a shrink?
It’s theoretically possible, but they will make it as difficult as possible for you to carry through with it so as not to have you stuck in an airport or something.
The UK recognizes dual citizenship, so there’s no problem. I have a relative with both passports. He travels to the US with the US one and to the UK with the UK one. Very convenient.
The only possible disadvantage of keeping US citizenship is the US govt’s barbaric practice of taxing citizens who live overseas. For people on average salaries, it doesn’t make a difference (Uncle Sam lets you offset the foreign tax against the US one), but for high earners it can theoretically make sense to renounce US citizenship (I know of one person who did it).
I will speak with both British and US lawyers before I make a decision… the indefinite right to remain means I can enter and leave freely, and to be honest I can’t imagine staying here forever. A more realistic possibility is emigrating to Australia with my girlfriend in 3-4 years, in which case a British passport is a bit easier to get than an Australian one without ancestry.
Or else I might have to just convince her to marry me first
The days are long gone when you could just arrive in another country and settle.
I’m old enough to remember us Brits being encouraged to emigrate to Australia. We had to pay £10 (I think) which entitled you to an assisted passage out there.
Of course go back a bit further and we could get out there for nothing.
Australia does not discriminate on grounds of citizenship when it comes to migrating to Australia, so being a UK citizen would not help you compared with being a US citizen, or being the citizen of any other country. (There is one exception to this: New Zealand citizens can migrate to Australia very easily. However, it’s not that easy to migrate to NZ either).
Well, that is relevant, of course! However, strictly speaking, common-law marriage is not recognised in Australian law. You may qualify as being in a de facto relationship. which is much the same thing under a different name.
“Barbaric” is a matter of opinion. Personally, I think it’s sensible that someone can’t earn millions of dollars off the US public and then get out of paying US taxes by declaring residency on some Caribbean island.
It’s not true that “Uncle Sam lets you offset the foreign tax against the US one”. Uncle Sam doesn’t enquire into what taxes you’re paying to your country of residence. What he does do is only tax the income you earn in that country above approximately $80,000 per year. And if you renounce your citizenship in order to get out of paying those taxes, he’ll still bill you for them for the next ten years (although I’m not sure exactly how he’d be able to collect it from defaulters).
