Since the OP’s question has been answered, allow me to present this information about the most densely packed trains in the world, the Mumbai Suburban Railway: From Wikipedia:
“Due to its extensive reach across the Mumbai Metropolitan Region, and its intensive use by the local urban population, overcrowding has grown to be a compelling problem (5,000 + passengers are packed into a 9-car rake during peak hours, as against the rated carrying capacity of 1,700). This has resulted in what is known as Super-Dense Crush Load of 14 to 16 standing passengers per square meter of floor space. Trains on the suburban line are on average more than 4 minutes apart, contributing to the problem of overcrowding.”
“Super-Dense Crush Load” - wow. How is it even possible to fit 16 people in one sqm?
ETA: I have seen railway guards with lathis beat people into holding the line at Mumbai stations. This was ten years ago so I don’t know if they use that “technique” anymore. I’m sure they are more efficient than “pushers” would be, given that everybody becomes a “pusher” in a packed Indian railway station
It’s impossible. In practice, this isn’t a huge problem in the morning because a lot of people get off at only a few stations. On the way back home, though, you just have to make sure you stay relatively close to the door if you get off at one of the early stations.
Yup. I inch my way closer to the door, as my station comes closer. Luckily I have flexible hours, so I can avoid the crowds most days. Some determined grandmas don’t mind poking people mercilessly…
In Chicago when train cars are only a fraction as packed (albeit packed to my eye) the passengers push back on someone insisting on getting on. During rush hour the subway trains arrive every 3 minutes or so if not faster. If you can’t get on one train wait 2-3 minutes and you are invariably first onto the next. Not too big a deal.
I wonder if a Japanese tourist in New York or Chicago, doing what they think is normal pushing themselves onto a train, have gotten themselves in trouble with other passengers?
I am also kind of amazed there is enough oxygen on such crowded trains for everybody. Fifteen people per square meter in a car like that? Sure it is not air tight but that is a lot of people sucking up oxygen. Obviously it all somehow works, just hard to imagine. Maybe they trains are built to force air in or something.
Things have gotter better than in the 80s and 90s. New subway lines have been built, and many workplaces in Tokyo now have flextime plans. At one time they had trains with no seats during rush hours (the seats retract into the wall during rush hours), but I hear they are no longer in use. And even in the 90s the “pushers” were not all that common - the trains I took never needed them.
Still, it is not unusual for trains to be so crowded that you can’t even move your arm, let alone read a book.
When you’re talking about Tokyo-class crowding, you have to have a completely different mentality on train design. It’s futile to try to seat as many passengers as possible; you can cram far more passengers if you eliminate seats (or reduce them as much as possible). Also you have to make the stops as short as possible so you can run more trains. Forget stairs; even seats are a hindrance to passengers moving into and out of the train. Modern Japanese commuter trains have at least 4 doors on each side of each car; some have 5, and the aforementioned seat-less trains had 6 doors on each side.
Train cars have ventilation fans. Japanese commuter trains have very powerful air conditioners. In fact, some people complain about it being too cold - mostly outside of rush hours, I’d imagine - and many trains have one or two cars designated as “weak air conditioning” cars.
Assuming there’s space for double-deckers (which, given the real-estate premium in Japan, I doubt) it seems like you could make double-decker trains accessible via double-decker platforms. It might save a little space over running two trains right over each other, although the infrastructure upgrades would be huge. I’ve never seen a subway with tall enough tunnels for a double-decker, though.
One thing I’ve often seen happen in Japan (though the Japan-based dopers haven’t mentioned it here, so maybe it’s not as common as I think) is that people near the door temporarily step out onto the platform, to allow other passengers to exit. The people on the platform wait, not only to allow passengers to get out, but to allow the people who were already on the train to get back in, before they start boarding.
Well, at the very least, I did. After working in Osaka and doing the push-yourself-in technique I linked to every morning, I instinctively tried to do it in the Montreal subway. To me, the car didn’t appear all that crowded and it was clear there was enough room to squeeze myself in. The other passengers didn’t think so, however, and I was unceremoniously pushed back out with a what the fuck are you trying to do kind of look.
Is Japan still completely atavistic when it comes to sensible commuting strategies? When I was there, flex-time was frowned upon and telecommuting was simply unspeakable. For people who don’t talk to each other much, they sure like to be around each other a lot.
Like ** scr4** wrote, flex time is much more common now than it used to be. It’s definitely not true that people don’t talk to each other much. That’s one reason that Japanese workplaces are open, so that people can talk to their colleagues easily.
Despite what it may appear, there is a lot of thought and work being done towards improving public transit congestion. However, ultimately you can’t get around the fact that you’re dealing with an urban population of over 30 million people.
My own experience is that people in Japan don’t telecommute in the sense that we mean it in North America and Europe. Most business people will check and reply to emails, etc. in the evenings and [some people] on weekends. But, I don’t recall anyone working from home except in exceptional circumstances.
The reason for this, I think, is related to population density through smaller living spaces. My current job would allow me to do some work from home. I tried it once, and it didn’t work out. With smaller houses and apartments, there are way too many distractions like kids to be able to have any sort of productivity. My brother in law works at home in North America. He locks himself in his office, which is in the basement, and he’s not to be disturbed for anything but emergencies. In Japan, there’s no way something like this would be practical for the average salaryman.
Yeah, I was going to mention something about that. I used to sit on the floor with the laptop in my… lap, since there was no real furniture in my mansion. When we moved offices, I got a place a five minute walk from the office, so much did I hate sitting on the floor to try and work (since I frequently had to coordinate stuff happening back in the Canadian office).
Also, on one of the videos linked to above, you can see the people lining up to board, and the lines are all perfectly formed, perpendicular to the train and straight in two’s. In Korea any semblance of a straight line is lost by about the 5th person, and it all turns into a large semi circular mass that is vying to cut in line. The Japanese really do have a very admirable sense of public courtesy.
