Please note: this is the factual side of the same question that I’ll also ask in IMHO.
How many post training lawyers get minor convictions against thier name(s)? For example, someone who’s been a lawyer for say five years and then gets a conviction against them for drink driving (DUI) or petty theft or unpaid parking tickets?
I’m not talking about the really big stuff like armed robbery or murder, just little petty things that are settled in small claims court?
And what happens to these guys if they get convicted? Do they have to give up the practice of law or whatever? I know it differs state by state (or country), but what’s the general assessment? I mean, to me it seems sort of extreme if a lawyer is suddenly dis-barred (or whatever) just because he/she is caught drunk-driving once or something - to ruin their law-practicing life over something so (relatively) minor. So what’s the consensus? And if you have to remain completely legally clean to practice law, then what the heck happens when you pick up a conviction for something like an unpaid parking fine? Is your legal career over?
Also, of particular interest to me are lawyers-in-training. What are the ramifications if you are someone who has the intention of practicing law (for example you have not yet passed the bar exam), but you then get involved in something like a DUI or small claim made against you? Is it basically over?
I would like to hear of any personal experiences you guys have on this sort of thing.
Are there any folks here on the SD who have been lawyers or were practicing lawyers, who got a petty conviction or small claim go against them?
Of particular interest to me are lawyers-in-training, folks who had the intention of studying law. How did it affect you when (or if) you got into practice? How much did it effect your credibility? Remember though, I’m not talking about the big stuff like first degree murder… just the little stuff like maybe parking ticket violations, petty theft or DUI(s).
Small claims court is for civil cases involving less than a certain amount of money (it varies considerably by jurisdiction.)
In New York, lawyers convicted of a felony (any crime punishable by a year or more in jail) is automatically disbarred. You probably won’t be disbarred for a misdemeanor, but you may have your license suspended temporarily, depending on the severity of your crime and whether or not it relates to your law practice.
I haven’t experienced anything like that, but I had a close friend who had had a DUI when he was in college. In my state there’s something called “Character and Fitness” which is reviewed during the bar admission process. He had to write a letter explaning the situation, and I think a member of a bar committee interviewed him. He was admitted and to the best of my knowledge it never came up again.
Parking/speeding tickets are not considered at all. Civil judgments would probably not be considered unless they somehow reflected upon your fitness/ability to be an attorney.
I had a lawyer from Vandalia Ohio back in '88 who was widely known to be the best DUI attorney available in the area. He was a former DA and worked in a jursidiction that had a DUI diversion program (where you plead guilty, go to some classes in a lockdown for 3 days and attend AA meetings for a year and then the court forgets to send your conviction to the state). He was late to my hearing because he was working on a big case, his own. They had arrested him for DUI earlier that day and we went thru the diversion program together. Never showed up on my record, so I doubt that it showed up on his. AFAIK he is still practicing last time I checked.
Not me personally, but I just finished reading a New jersey appellate court decision about a lawyer who represented himself when he was charged with shoplifting, was convicted in the lower court and then won reversal in the appellate court.
Briefly, this guy left a Walgreens without paying for a set of photo prints. He was annoyed after he claimed that the clerk should have charged him $5.99 for double prints as represented in the flier he handed the clerk when he ordered; the clerk presented him single prints and charged him $9.75. He refused to pay, and after the clerk refused to modify the charge he wrote his name and address on a piece of paper, below the words, “Will settle this in court.” He left the paper and walked out, responding to the clerk’s wanring that he would be charged with shoplifting with, “Do what you can do.”
The store called the police, and two officers showed up at the attorney’s home. The officers advised him the store would not press charges if he paid the amount in dispute, but he refused. He spoke to the manager by phone and was unable to reach a satisfactory agreement; the officers wrote him a summons for shoplifting and he was convicted in Municipal Court, fined $150 and ordered to pay the $9.75 and perform 10 days of community service. He appealed and a state Superior Court judge upheld the conviction.
He appealed again, arguing that his conduct did not fall within the definition of shoplifting, a statute which prohibits the taking of merchandise from a merchant. He argued that his photos were his, taken by him and not subject to re-sale by the store to anyone else. He pointed to numerous court cases where people have sued for the loss or damage to photographs to show that the market value of photographs is zero and the store is liable only to replace film. He argued that the store was not a merchant offering merchandise for sale, but a baliee for services, and retaining his flim for development was a bailment. He argued that the store was using the shoplifting charge to transform a civil billing dispute into a criminal matter.
And a three-judge panel of the New Jersey appeals court agreed, vacating his conviction because it did not constitute “shoplifting” within the meaning of the criminal code.
He went through six judges, a trial, and two appeals over $3.76.
However, since he was representing himself, he was just spending his own time (and getting a bit of courtroom practice at the same time). The lawyers prosecuting, and then defending against the appeal, were presumably being paid by someone (the state, county or city, since it was a crimiinal matter).
The Montello school district had a restraining order put out on a certain qualified person, for treatened violence and harassment. They were also involved in other probamatic happenings.
I’m a member of the IL bar, have passed the CA bar (haven’t bothered swearing in yet) and am likely applying and sitting for the NY and NJ bars within the year (I don’t have to take MBE, woohoo).
I got a jaywalking ticket 2 weeks after I took the IL bar and was planning on contesting it but once I declared it to them (I had passed the exam), they insisted I pay it off or they would refuse to swear me in.
I haven’t looked at the NY application too closely but NJ wants me to send some sort of Certification of my entire driving history for every state I’ve been licensed in.
California requires you to list pretty much everything. It’s part of the reason why I haven’t bothered swearing in yet-I’ve got years anyway, I finished off the hard part.
I could swear CA had something along the lines of “if you have too many speeding tickets, and inquiry may be made” or something on their moral forms. Maybe it was NY.
The rule of thumb for moral fitness is generally declare, declare, DECLARE. They only go psycho if you try to hide shit.
Gfactor has already provided you with some nice links on point. I’ll answer this question:
As with the links provided, the consequences depend on the charge at hand and what the particular state bar does in that state. When a 3L plans on taking the bar exam, he has to pass the character fitness part, which includes a very extensive background check. The bar takes these things pretty seriously. I had all 10 (or was it 12) of references contacted with extensive questions about me. A significant issue in this stage could seriously prevent acceptance to the bar.
An actual, really and truly ticket for JAYWALKING? Sheesh, where did you run into Deputy Fife?
Agreed. And my post was only meant to be relevant to my jurisdiction, KY. Also, it’s been over 15 years since I went through this, so things could have changed.
No probs, I wasn’t trying to show you up, just point out that some jurisdictions are very nitpicky.
Actually the cops in downtown L.A. (where I work) are exceedingly jaywalking trigger happy because it’s a largish fine. I actually jaywalked across a one-way in pouring rain and then got a bad cold from him keeping me an additional 20 minutes in the rain to write me the ticket. Now I just stand in the rain if necessary.
I was planning on contesting it or going in an explaining the circumstances (I have a great driving history) but once the IL bar said they wanted a “paid in full receipt” or a final judgment and my swearing in depended on it, I just went down to the court and paid off the $160 or whatever the hell it was.
Touched on in passing by friedo but otherwise ignored by learned counsel is a point many of us non-lawyers forget: American jurisprudence is divided into civil (with ungodly numbers of subcategories) and criminal. A lawsuit (small claims or fullscale, or a request for an injunction, is a civil matter – two private parties, or the state functioning as a private party against another one. There’s no conviction in a civil case; the judge (occasionally the jury) rules on whose case the law and the facts support, and the court finds in their favor, rendering (or refusing to render) an award of the sum of money at stake, or granting or refusing the injunction. In a criminal case, the state charges the defendant with a violation of the criminal/penal law, and he is tried and found guilty (convicted) or not guilty (acquitted) (or pleads out or the case is dismissed). Only criminal charges* ordinarily will cause disbarment or suspension of a license, though I suspect a tort case for civil fraud or similar unprofessional conduct might also trigger some penalties.
Note that malfeasance in office, not strictly a criminal charge, will also produce a disbarment. There was a case a few years back where a Congresscritter was disbarred for some scandalous misconduct. This is also what’s being mooted regarding the Durham County D.A. as a result of the Duke lacrosse case.
And, of course, Frank’s merger of the IMHO thread into this one makes me sound like I’m dissing off the points made by Bricker, Gileset al. which were not there when I posted, arriving with the other thread.
I drive a cab in California. Some of my passangers are attorneys out partying. They’ve told me that 1 DUI will get you a reprimand and a 2nd can be cause for disbarment due to lack of “moral fitness”.
They had arrested him for DUI earlier that day and we went thru the diversion program together. Never showed up on my record, so I doubt that it showed up on his. AFAIK he is still practicing last time I checked.