As someone who has gone from supporting the death penalty to being pretty much against it now I have to say Roof being executed wouldn’t bother me in the least.
However, after seeing the large number of wrongly convicted people who are finally released after decades I can no longer support it. Also, the system is extremely biased against minorities and the non-wealthy which is another reason I can no longer support the death penalty.
Manson is/was insane. He should not even be in prison, he should be in a secure facility that is designed to manage his corroded mind. Ridgeway might be another example for whom treatment or whatever is a better idea than punishment.
Yeah that’s pretty much what I think as well concerning the kinds of cases Guinastasia is referring to when she mentions Manson.
Lemme walk back what I originally said, however. I said no “prison sentence longer than 10 years” but really what I have in mind is that there should be no such thing as “without parole,” AND parole determinations should be made by third parties not elected officials, AND parole hearings should start at year one, AND I bet if we did it right we could have all parolable people paroled within 10 years (and the unparolable ones shouldn’t be in the prison system in the first place–there should be a separate, more explicitly medically oriented system for those guys.)
Well, not to get off track, the idea that punishing people improves their behavior has largely not been shown to be valid. We shit on the convicts and then cannot understand why they have an attitude when they get out. Corrections should be about studying the convicts to determine how we can make them not be a problem when they get out, then do that.
(I should note that that is not typical “liberal” thinking, more like fringey pragmatism.)
I’m down with it.
No, what you’re describing is pretty much one of those cases of being “so open-minded your brain falls out”. There are some crimes so heinous that you’ve pretty much forfeited your right to live among society. I think there are individuals who have earned life without parole. Taking away the death penalty is one thing. But no life imprisonment? That’s just fucking insane.
A secure treatment facility is equivalent to life imprisonment. I spent 4 months in the state hospital when I was 19, while they tried to figure out what the microdot had done to my brain. Let me tell you, from first hand experience, being stuck in a dormitory full of crazy people for the rest of your life is very probably worse punishment than bars and soap-on-a-rope. Cuckoo’s Nest comes nowhere near what it is really like.
I think the one thing I still share with my Catholic upbringing is my attitude toward the death penalty. No, I’m not for it. There could conceivably be circumstances when it’s the least bad option, but we’re not anywhere near those circumstances.
No, not even for evil people. Not even for terrible crimes. Not even Saddam Hitlinpotamin.
This looks a lot more like an opinion pole than a debate. While I don’t like kicking threads around from forum to forum, I am going to send this to IMHO.
(Just to insert a fact as it leaves: in the reports I have seen, Roof was not given a gun as a gift; Roof purchased a gun with money given as a birthday present.)
this. Times a thousand. I have no problem with the death penalty but it must be absolute guilt. No question. rotting in prison forever works for me too.
This. Again. Cap his sorry ass.
By U.S. standards, I’m a liberal, and remain staunchly opposed to capital punishment.
Capital punishment is morally wrong, always and everywhere. This crime, and any putative punishment, fits the framework of the space-time continuum.
So what would be the “reward” of releasing a dangerous homicidal maniac after ten or so years (or at all)? I get that the desire is to not unnecessarily punish people with unduly long or harsh prison sentences. Particularly for non-violent crimes. But I don’t think this a great case study.
A liberal (of the FDR/Truman/Humphrey variety) here and yes I absolutely support the death penalty in this case.
My scepticism of the death penalty comes from pragmatic reasons such as the potential for executing an innocent man or the costs associated with appeals that exceed those of life in prison. However, nonetheless, I’ve always supported the death penalty for particularly heinous murderers where the guilt is certain such as serial killers, spree killers, mob bosses, terrorists and/or war criminals. This applies to Mr. Roof and thus he ought to be executed as soon as guilt is ascertained by the courts.
As a side-note I might add that the use of lethal injection for carrying out the death penalty in the US is one of the worst effects of its “puritanical” (really moralistic Unitarian) heritage. This obsession with an antiseptic form of execution that has the form of being clean and painless instead of being actually clean and painless like the venerable firing squad or the trusty guillotine is the unfortunate legacy of those tiresome Yankee heretics who rejected the wonderful pragmatism and orthodoxy of their forefathers for the endless crusades for various silly causes (abolitionism and women’s suffrage excepted) such as Prohibition, animal rights, and this.
Far-left liberal. No, I’m not in favor of the death penalty. It’s not because it’s inherently wrong in all cases but because it’s too difficult to administer fairly and humanely in our society in proportion to the benefits it brings.
The piece-of-shit person in question is certainly a POS, but he’s also clearly crazy. I don’t think there’s really any treatment for this type of sociopath, but there’s also no particular advantage in terms of justice in killing them either.
Strong liberal. Strongly in favor of executing Roof. He’s forfeited his right to live and society gains nothing by keeping him alive. There’s absolutely no question of his guilt or his motives.
We could show Black Americans that they are fully accepted by improving their schools, ending economic exploitation; degrading and hypocritical attitudes in the workplace and out in public; and heavy-handed policing.
Or we could kill one crazy white punk who took that attitude to its logical extreme. Then those negroes should have nothing to complain about. Amirite? (Ho ho, see how I used their colorful patois to comic effect?)
I am stealing “Bring on the electric bleachers”.
Ditto. Mass murderers, serial killers, and truly horrible people (like Hitler and bin Laden) can all sit on those electric bleachers together as far as I’m concerned.
FWIW, I’m a far left liberal hippie commie sort when I’m in northeast Florida, but oddly, in Massachusetts with the same beliefs, I’m kind of centrist. Go figure. :rolleyes:
I don’t know what openmindedness has to do with anything here.
I’m not for the death penalty but this kid just looks like someone who won’t survive his time in prison. He’ll get multiple life sentences but in reality he won’t be there for long.