For us, it was supposed to be part of the training. We were supposed to have a clean weapon and a full magazine on us at all times, and have a fully equipped vest with full mags and canteens on the ready. A soldier should be ready to fight at any moment; they hammered that in all the time in basic training. Even now, when I do my reserve duty, I’m constantly checking that the magazine in my pocket is full and that my weapon is safe, clean, and within arm’s reach.
There was always a bucket full of bullets at our campsite. we were expected to top our magazines off when necessary - after ranges and life fire exercises, for instance. There was never any excuse for not having full magazines.
In six months of basic and infantry training, my company didn’t have a single accidental discharge away from the firing range.
I’m sure infantry basic is different from other basic training. Infantry have to be used to being around ammo in a way that other soldiers don’t. I never even took a rifle out at my Guard unit, except on qualification days.
Infantry on patrol during combat I’m sure DO keep a round chambered.
I hadn’t considered transport in trucks or helicopters. I can understand keeping a unchambered round in vehicles unless on combat patrol.
I am surprised so many soldiers walk around without a load clip. I guess that is the ultimate gun safety. Its rare to hear about any accidental shooting incidents in the US military. They are very gun safety conscious. My Dad was a member of the base Rod & Gun Club. Did a lot of target shooting and hunting. All his personal weapons were registered at the base we lived on.
My dad was a Tech Sergeant when I was a kid. He never carried a weapon on duty stateside. He was a supervisor in the Instrument shop. A secure location inside the base and there was no reason for anyone to have a weapon inside the shop. Dad carried a weapon in Nam because even staff personnel were at risk. The bases weren’t totally secure. He came back as a Master Sergeant and didn’t carry a weapon in the military again.
Wondering about airport security in Europe. Granted, it was twenty years ago when I went there, but I remember in England there were soldiers in the terminals with automatic rifles. I always wondered if they were “locked and loaded” or more for the intimidating factor with the ability to chamber a round when needed?
When I went to Africa, the soldiers at the airport were all carrying AK47s. Judging by their demeanor I have no doubt they were locked and loaded and it scared the piss out of me. Only because the young soldiers didn’t appear to be taught the basics of gun safety, almost everyone of them walked around with their finger inside the trigger guard. Even more scary when the person giving me a ride home from the airport was flagged down by a couple of soldiers who needed a ride. They got in the car with their AKs so now we’re driving around with undisciplined young soldiers with no gun safety awareness. This was in The Gambia btw. Good times!
In training? Never happens in the US, unfortunately. Live ammo is only distributed on the range. Any other training event involves blanks or empty magazines. Mostly empty magazines.
You don’t have live fire exercises? That’s surprising, I remember seeing a documentary where UK soldiers used live ammo in a exercise where they maneuvered against objectives, even at night.
I suppose that this is for units other than the special forces because at least some of those definitely use live ammo outside the range.
I have no idea which part of Europe you are referring to, but the British Army certainly does not see its recruits as “scum”. Yes they do take raw recruits, many of whom have never lived away from mummy, and teach them how the army expects a soldier to behave. This will include a great deal of physical exercise as well as enforcing things like personal hygiene.
As far as rifles are concerned, it is a gradual process: First couple of weeks they never see one; then they learn how to stip it down, clean it, and generally look after it. Then on the range with live ammo; then in exercises with blanks, and finally exercises with live ammunition. By that time a goodly number of the original recruits will have dropped out; voluntarily or otherwise. The pass rate for some regiments is well under 50%.
I think this was in the book No Easy Day (capturing Osama bin Laden). The Seal was describing their training and he mentioned how they unload their weapons at the base. He mentioned something they fired into. A bullet catcher? I can’t recall what he called it.
I was surprised they didn’t pull the clip and rack the weapon to eject the bullet.
I avoid the problem when I go shooting by pulling my clip and taking my last shot down range. I dry fire down range to make damn sure its unloaded. Then rack it open to transport it home.
Yep, that’s exactly the scenario I thought about when I started the OP. The military loves to use their guns like batons. Bad things happen if they are loaded.
Theres abayonet thread that makes me laugh. Anyone want to march in a column with bayonets fixed? One misstep and you get speared in the ass.
What do you mean? He said that ammo was issued when on a range. An area where you do squad or larger live fire is still a range. It’s just a bigger range.
Sure we do. On a live fire maneuver range. Even at Basic Training we have squad sized live fire maneuver exercises. But they are always executed on a range. You can’t just randomly shoot up the countryside.
Live fire practice does not occur outside of an approved, established range. A lot goes into the creation and establishment of a range. Not the least of which is the SDZ calculations and surveys. Here’s some light reading on the topic:
I meant the classical Europe of Frederick the Great and the Duke of Wellington. You’ve moved past that, obviously, but I suspect a bit of the attitude still remains.
We do live fire exercises, but not every single one, and you have to build to that level. Hell, the first few times you don’t even get blanks, super fun yelling “Bang!” Or “Budgiecut” (the latter for three round bursts) while running a section attack.
European approach? Breaking down/rebuilding people in boot camp rather seem like the American approach to me, with drill sergeants shouting at recruits and such…
In France, 20 years ago or so, guns weren’t loaded. Ammunitions were in a sewed inside pocket that had to be ripped off. Of course, it might have changed since.
Soldiers in terminals are completely useless anyway, there isn’t a thing they can do, so I assume they’re there only for intimidation/reassurance (probably more the latter) which would mean no ammunition is needed.
