Marching in parades or just a double time march cross country. Would they carry a rifle racked with a bullet in the chamber?
I can imagine accidents. Some guy trips and oh sorry mate, you just got shot.
Specifically for parades are those rifles unloaded? Would there be any reason for them to parade march with loaded weapons? Sadat got shotas a military parade marched by. That one ended with a bang. I’d guess the US Secret Service gets antsy at parades.
No. In 20+ years in the US Army (including Desert Shield and Desert Storm) there was never an instance where anyone would have a chambered round while moving (on foot or in a vehicle). At parades and ceremonies no one is issued ammunition. Even on the firing range you would get into your firing position before the Range Officer/NCO would issue the order “Lock and Load one 10-round magazine”.
In wartime, sure. I had a round chambered the entire time I was outside the wire, despite being in relative safety the entire time. On a parade, oh hell no. You won’t even have ammunition within several miles, let alone in the chamber.
For the few times that we went on parade, they didn’t even issue us bolts.
In basic training, we didn’t even get real rifles unless we were at the range. We had fake plastic M16s for drill practice. Even in Iraq, we didn’t put a magazine in the weapon unless we were on guard duty or outside the wire. We had to carry a loaded magazine at all times though.
How’d you get a gun without a bolt? Are they stored without the bolts in them?
How then did you learn to take the weapon apart and clean it?
In USCG boot camp, we had M16s for drill and we had to learn to field strip them and clean them for inspection. They may or may not have had firing pins. At the range where we fired for Record, there were M16A1s
If you know how to field strip and clean a weapon, you know how to remove it’s bolt.
No, you’d never march with a round in the chamber. There’s no need to. You’d probably not even need a magazine. You don’t need one to do rifle drill. If, during the parade, there is a firing drill (21 gun salute), one of the commands the Honor Guard would be given would be to load their weapons.
We were very weapons tight back in my day. The last thing Squad Leaders would do before leaving on a mission was a pre-combat inspection. The last part of that was the final rifle inspection where the SL would close the bolt on an empty chamber on a Trooper’s (we were Cav, we weren’t soldiers, we were Troopers) rifle, insert a loaded magazine into it, and return it to the Trooper. They were NOT to operate the charging handle until they were told “Line of Departure! LOCK AND LOAD!” If they disobeyed, first time was a strong warning, 2nd time was honey bucket detail, 3rd time was an Article 15 and honey buckets.
Coming back, the command was “CLEAR YOUR WEAPONS!” Magazines were removed and bolts were locked in the open position. We weren’t too concerned with dirt in the weapons then because they’d have been cleaned within the next hour. Or else. Once they’d been cleaned, if we did carry around the firebase, it was with the bolt closed on an empty chamber and a loaded magazine in the well. Goddess help you if you got caught with a round in the chamber unless you were on perimeter watch.
I have to say, I don’t see the logic behind that. How can you teach soldiers to be comfortable with their weapons and with ammo if you don’t let them carry any? We were given (actual working) rifles a week into basic training, along with 6 full magazines, and we were required to carry at least one around with us at all times.
I keep thinking of the scene in “Full Metal Jacket” where the recruit shoots his drill sergeant then takes his own life.
I dont know if this is accurate but one wouldnt want some young men full of aggression, and maybe some booze, to have live ammunition. I read once that after the fighting ended in WW2 there were many cases of angry soldiers going on shooting rampages.
Then you provide them with training. You’re supposed to trust these men and women to protect your country - you can’t trust them with ammo?
(FMJ was a story about an idiot drill sergeant - any decent trainer would have identified a mentally unbalanced soldier a week into training and gotten him the hell out of there).
May be the difference between a compaction army and a professional one. The conscript one needs to teach him skills now, before his term is up, while for the pros, eh, well we have time anyway.
Complete WAG on my part.
I think it’s more the classical European approach toward enlisted men - that they’re essentially scum, animals who need to be broken down completely and rebuilt as soldiers before they can be trusted.
If your conscripts have access to live ammunition all the time, incidents and accidents will happen. It’s a matter of how many dead/injured conscripts you’re willing to accept during peacetime.
They happen, but not as often as you’d think. And it’s better that they learn how to handle live ammo when they’re closely supervised trainees, than afterward.
Marching in parades? Why is ammo needed?
Marching double time? Again why is ammo needed? (Double time being a jog where no combat is anticipated)
Both scenarios are where people are put into situations where the odds of combat is almost nil.
A better question might be where a soldier need a ‘round chambered vs a round is not chambered; when is it needed’.
Well, that’s kind of the point, you only let them handle live ammunition while they’re being supervised, you keep it locked up when not at the shooting range.
Keep in mind that in most parts of the civilized world you don’t have worry about terrorists popping out from holes in the ground,or any other kind of attack, except perhaps for criminals who want to steal your rifles.
What about overland marches? Overland march means full kit, and full kit includes ammo.
In basic, we were issued real rifles about the third week, when we got TA-50, and from that time on, we were in web gear, rucksacks, helmets, and carrying rifles everywhere, except to PT and meals, when we grounded it outside the chow hall, and left two guards. We had empty clips in our ammo packs for the feel of them.
We got issued actual ammo only just before firing, and turned in the clips right after, and the drill sergeants rodded our rifles to make sure there was no round in the chamber.
If you tried to pocket a couple of extra rounds (so that when you qualified, you had extras to fire), and got caught with them, you’d get severely disciplined. A second offense could get you recycled (restarted in basic). There was an amnesty box in the bay of our barracks, so if you discovered a round, or even just brass, that had fallen into your cargo pocket accidentally, or something, you could dispose of it. You could also throw away any rounds you might have tried to sneak out of the range, then thought the better of, in the amnesty box. Stuff really did happen. When I had detail filling clips, and I handled hundreds of rounds in an hour, I found one in my pocket later that day, and threw it in the amnesty box first chance I had.
When DH was in Iraq, he carried a rifle and a full clip everywhere, but the clip was not locked into the rifle; in was on his ammo belt. He did NOT have a round in the chamber. He was on a secure base in Belad the whole time. Infantry on patrol probably had a different procedure.
We always had complete rifles, though, with bolt and firing pin, and had to disassemble them and put them back together every evening, until no one asked any questions, and we could all do it automatically. We had to clean them thoroughly after firing, and they got inspected. We also had to clean them if we’d been crawling through sand or mud, or if it had rained that day.
Yup…we did humps fully geared, carrying ammo, but most of it was training in which rounds were not chambered. I felt sorry for the mortarmen in the heavy weapon companies…crap they carried a lot of gear.
Again, outside of combat situations why would a round be chambered?
The first question should be; when are military people given live rounds?
Second question; when do military people carry rounds in the chamber on the move?