There will never be acceptance if people aren’t willing to stand up and speak out. Staying in the closet (whether we’re talking sexuality or mental status) only prolongs the need to stay hidden.
Give me a little credit: I’ve thought you were an absolute moron for a long time. It’s not like I just noticed. I agree that people do kid about suicide and that that by itself is not a basis for committing them or what have you. Everything else you’ve said is ridiculous.
Standing up and speaking out helps future generations, but not the current one. It hurts the current generation. Are most people willing to sacrifice their futures so a future generation of mentally ill (or gay) people can potentially succeed?
You sure?
How do they know about her illness?
Now, what “record” are we talking about, here? The medical records that are kept on you by your health care providers, which must be kept private in order to comply with HIPAA?
I know what you mean by “a place where people’s “private” medical records are everyone’s business”. Small towns sure are fun places. But on the whole, I’d be much more comfortable about the privacy of my official medical records in such a place than about the privacy of what I say in front of a group of locals in the “mental health club” with no legal obligation to keep quiet.
So when DO we speak up? If no one ever speaks up, you NEVER gain acceptance. I’m not interested in making people feel comfortable, sorry.
My theory: people are open about their mental illness, and don’t get hired. They still find a way to be productive members of society. Establishment sees this, wakes up and realizes that hey, we shouldn’t have been discriminating against these people. Establishment hires younger crop of mentally ill workers, realizes they’re good workers, stigma fades. Older mentally ill workers, now accepted by the establishment but lacking the experience needed to get good jobs, continue in their McD/Walmart existence. They lost their ability to build a good resume because they were out there selflessly working to erase stigma–a worthy cause, but one which stole their prime working years from under them. Also all those years of not being able to get a good job because they were too busy suffering from the diseases they were either not able to get help for (either because of economic or social reasons) doesn’t help the resume. So, the selfless activist generation loses out, while later generations inherit the fruits of their labor.
You can also replace “mentally ill” with any other minority group.
Small town.
It’s not about making other people feel comfortable, it’s about manipulating the system so you can get ahead in the same way you would be able to get ahead if you did not have a mental illness, or there was no stigma.
There’s something to that, but you can see gains made within the lifetimes of some individuals, so I’d say you were too broad when you said “It hurts the current generation.”
I grew up in a town like that and my parents still live there. It’s the same town I mentioned back on page 1 or 2 of this thread in which people did nothing when I said I was suicidal back in high school. What I don’t understand is why on earth anyone who doesn’t fit in would stay in such a place. 
I understand that, in your aunt’s case, she probably had a husband and his job to take into consideration, but if she was having that hard a time surely he should have taken that into consideration, too? The town I was born in is a few thousand miles away on the far side of the Atlantic. Even so, it’s not the town either of my parents grew up in. The town I grew up in is about 15 miles away. I wouldn’t have considered staying in it to live and work when I got out of high school; I suspect one factor in my decision to major in Japanese was to get as far away from it as possible. Why would you choose to stay where you know you’ll be treated badly? To me, it’s kind of like going back to an abusive spouse. Yes, I’m sure there are good things about it, but you get to a point where the good outweighs the bad.
Again, we’ve had different experiences. I didn’t seek out treatment and I wound up flat on my back in a mental hospital, unresponsive and expecting to die. Your aunt did and couldn’t find work. It does help if you’ve chosen a field where some flakiness is expected, though, and a lot of parents do seem to expect teachers to be who they want them to be, rather than who they are.
I suppose you could also argue that Cecil’s Place is a form of backdoor treatment and I do want the membership to remain anonymous. On the other hand, I’ve dealt with someone on-line who has given me a realistic reason to think he or she was likely to commit suicide. It was frightening and not something I’m trained to deal with. I did the best I could and the person’s ok, although I’m not sure how much I had to do with it. I’m a translator turned programmer, not a therapist and I don’t pretend to be one. I couldn’t stand by and do nothing, but I understood my friends’ fears that if things went badly, I could become severely depressed and suicidal myself.
I won’t be stigmatized. No, I don’t tell employers, “I’ve got a B.A. in Japanese, an A.S. in Computer Science, and 3 hospitalizations for depression.” Actually, unless it’s directly relevant, I don’t even mention the B.A. in Japanese anymore, although it is buried at the bottom of my resume. My mental health, like my religion, is private and, unless it affects my work, none of my employer’s business, and I refuse to allow depression to affect my work. Then again, good IT techs are supposed to be a little crazy.
So are people who post at 6:00 am! What am I doing here again? mumble mumble mumble I really should go back to bed. xzxxyx
CJ
Okay, wait. Are we still talking about that small town you mentioned, or the larger universe?
Cuz if we’re talking about the small town you reference, where everybody knows your business, then isn’t your point moot?
And if we’re talking about the world at large, then your point’s still moot. At what point, do you think, does mental illness/potential mental illness come up in an interview? Ain’t never come up for any job I’ve ever gone out for, and I have interviewed at McDonald’s. (Ironically, during the year I was first suicidal!!!)
I will grant you that I don’t know any schizophrenics, so I don’t know what their experience is, and I assume that that is the type of disorder you’re talking about. But for us garden-variety severely depressed people, the level of paranoia you believe we should have just doesn’t true-up with my experience or the experience of any of the garden-variety severely depressed people I know. Which is quite a few, across many different backgrounds, hometowns, current hometowns, education levels, and careers. And to expand that further, across different levels of “public” involuntary committments. Actually, mine was the most “private” (didn’t directly involve my employer or an ambulance in front of my house) and in the largest city/town.
I’m assuming that it comes up after the interview, when the employer researches everything he can about you in order to determine your suitability for the job.
I’ll readily admit that my own skewed small-town experiences heavily influence my thoughts on this matter, and that being under psychiatric care might not be as big a deal in the more civilized parts of the world. In fact, I’m quite happy that this is the case, since I would hate to think that millions of people were being denied care or denied jobs–frankly, in my family even being on meds was enough to warrant a shunning, my aunt with schizoaffective disorder is totally shunned by the “power block” of my mother and one of my other aunts, despite the fact that my mother (and maybe the aunt too, I don’t know, mental illness runs in my family so it could be likely) is on meds herself. Keep it inside, don’t share your feelings or thoughts with anyone else if you still want your siblings to speak to you on any other occasion but quarter-annual birthday parties, even if those feelings or thoughts are hurting you. Because if you talk to anyone else, you will be shunned, not just by your family but by people at school (who can pick out crazy people anyway, so it’s not like being under care or not makes much of a difference wrt friendships and such). Perhaps the world at large is more progressive than I give it credit for.
Does that include breaking the law by gaining access to confidential medical records? :dubious:
Bossmen can do whatever they want; their power and money puts them above the common law. Or at least, I think it does. I don’t have too high an estimation of bosses/managers/what have you, I figure they’d do just about anything to get the information they desire. But here’s a catch-22: if your medical records were hacked into, why should a lawyer believe you? You’re crazy.
I’ve had several jobs in a couple of states since I finally got treatment. While I’ve got some pretty cynical notions about what businesses are capable of myself, it’s been my experience that none of them will know about my history of depression unless I tell them. In fact, I got a job with a rather narrow-minded boss from a small town while I was actually in therapy for depression. That boss ran a medical supply firm, so I got some exposure to what the law’s like. There’s a law called HIPAA which makes it very difficult and illegal to release medical information without permission. Even when collecting data for medical studies, that data must be completely stripped of any information which could tie it back to a patient.
Discriminating against someone who has a mental illness is also illegal under the Americans with Disabilities Act and groups like NIMH, the National Institute of Mental Health, can provide resources if a person is discriminated against because of mental illness. I suspect any lawyer who refuses to take a legitimate discrimination case because “you’re crazy” is going to find himself in a lot of trouble with the American Bar Association.
continuity eror, you and I’ve met in real life. If all you had to know me by was your impression of me from that first meeting would you have suspected my history? Doing background checks is expensive. Even doing drug tests isn’t cheap and most off-the-shelf ones don’t screen for anti-depressants. 2 1/2 years ago, while I was laid off and depressed, I actually wound up temping at a mental health services provider. They needed a temporary receptionist; they weren’t worried about my background.
CJ
So what do you think he’s going to do? Figure out somehow who your insurance company is, call them up, and say “Hi there, I’m Joe Evil from Evilcorp, could you fax me over a copy of everything continuity error’s ever submitted an insurance claim for? Yeah, I know it’s illegal and will get you fired if anyone finds out, but I’m powerful and have money. Oh, and by the way, do you know who his insurance provider was five years ago? I gotta go call them, too.”? Maybe follow you around until he figures out who your doctor is and bribe someone in the office to make copies of your medical records? Dig through your trash to figure out what prescription bottles you throw away? What’s more, does he really have the resources to do this for everyone he hires, as well as getting everyone in the know to keep quiet about it? Because an employer who did something like this regularly and let a rumor get out would definitely be attracting a lot of unwanted attention - privacy advocates, disabled rights advocates, lawyers specializing in extremely lucrative class action lawsuits, etc.
Honestly, yes, it’s possible to get information about someone’s health that you shouldn’t have access to. But it’s not as easy as logging into some special rich-and-powerful-guy database, typing your name in, and finding out that your parents made you go to a shrink when you were twelve. It requires risk, money, and time… and while Mr. Bossman may be willing to invest that in tracking down the health records of his least favorite politician, he’s probably not willing to do it for you, the prospective mid-level office drone. Quite frankly, you just ain’t that important. 
Also, I don’t know a polite way to put this, but… you doing ok on the mental health front? I ask because during my less-rational moments some time ago I was generally all “AAAH! Nooo! If I ever get any official medical help I’ll never be able to get a security clearance and I’ll never be able to do those lucrative medical studies for pay again and I’ll never get a decent job and I’ll never be allowed into Canada except to visit and that means my boyfriend will leave me because we can’t be together because I SUCK and my prospects of ever doing anything interesting with my life or being happy ever are OVER!” In retrospect, that was wrong, but it did seem rather plausible at the time.
Well, I can tell you that when you go for health insurance (like when you’re retired early and need a health plan), those insurance agencies know every detail about your health history. They told my sister-in-law things she had forgotten about. And because her husband had some minor health problems (I’m talking minor) they are having a hard time finding affordable insurance. So SOMEONE is able to get it.
Is that what happened to your aunt (if so, she has a VERY good chance of successfully sueing her former boss and the lawyer she checked with)?
Or are you just pulling this shit out of your paranoid ass?
:rolleyes:
No shit, sherlock. The insurance company pretty much has to have access to it, wouldn’t you think?
:dubious:
I’m referring to things that weren’t ever turned in on insurance. Things from thirty or more years before. How would they get that if there was no record within the insurance company? You really are a nasty little bitch, aren’t you?