I partially agree with this. I think the point that somebody who suffers from self-loathing is going to have a very hard time loving a child that is just like them. If you hate the way you look, how nice is it going to be to see a reminder of your face/eyes/body shape every single day for the rest of your life? Or perhaps even worse, how would you like to see your child more beautiful or sans whatever “deformity” you hate? Children are a constant reminder of everything you are and everything you aren’t. I think a person who can’t see past his or her own self-loathing would have a very tough time dealing with that. The canard of a parent resenting a child for having everything they don’t (or being everything they aren’t) is a pretty common one, that I don’t think people consider the flip side–a parent resenting a child for being everything the parent is.
Good point, Jesse. As you say, you weren’t witnessing. I apologize for suggesting that you were.
It happens
That has got to be one of the saddest things I’ve ever heard. I can remember having a couple of weekends with my ex that were more like “I have plans, this is your weekend with him.” “No, *I *have plans, this is *your *weekend.” and I felt guilty enough doing that.
PS - I love it when we are all adults. Seasons Greetings to us all!
PPS - welcome to the boards, Jesse.
Jesse Leigh: Sorry, but this doesn’t fly. To state that everybody loves themselves is ignorant, as Swallowed My Cellphone explains, and using the Bible as the basis for such a specious argument does border on witnessing.
I don’t understand it on a personal level, but I know it happens. I guess if you need to belittle someone smaller than you, and you always make it the same child, you can tell yourself that it’s their fault. It’s not that you’re an abusive person. Look at how you’re not abusing anyone else.
I’ve seen something a bit similar in operation. There are a few branches of my family in which it’s SOP to have a favorite and a goat within each family. That means that everyone is picking out a favorite and a goat in each set of siblings, not that there’s one accepted child for each role. They’ll sit down and argue relative merits and carp on faults, right out in front of everybody.
Then everyone grows up, mostly remembers the times they were unfairly dumped on, and argues that "you were always the favorite, I’ve had to deal all my life with . . . " Fortunately, that side of the family lived in each others houses a lot, and no one could ever agree on a goat. I shudder to think what would have happened then.
I have a friend who very obviously doesn’t like her teenage daughter. The daughter has been a free spirit since birth, and the mom is wound-tight perfectionist. From the beginning they didn’t exactly “mesh”, and sadly my friend could never loosen her standards enough to appreciate the beautiful and artistic nature of her own child.
The kid told a school friend she wanted to kill herself and she’s spent the last week in the psych ward at the county hospital. The mom is irritated that she’s been inconvenienced with this situation and the subsequent hospital bill. She’s mad that the daughter would say something stupid enough out loud just to get attention that would cause this all to happen. <rolleyes>
Sadly I have watched this kid grow up screwed up, all because the mom couldn’t control her and fit her into her own mold, and therefore rejected her in every way.
The crazier thing is that this friend is very much like my own mom, who treated me much the same way as a kid/teen. This friend has always hated my mom for that, and she doesn’t see that she’s exactly the same way.
I’ve tried to encourage her with her daughter over the years, but she’s never budged. It has caused a very limited friendship between us that I’ve never been able to really expose. I have my own issues that have prevented me from confronting her about it. Maybe because it’s so close to my own pain. It’s screwed up, but there it is.
Afternoon SBNT!
Thank you for the apology. I too apologize if I offended you in any way, it was not intended.
Have a spectacular day - I’m doing to bed now - only three hours late, but… what can y’do? 
- Jess.
I can believe that it’s entirely possible this happens. Although a case can be made for the reasons why (like mental illness), I think Susan Smith would qualify as someone who at least hated her kids enough to want them out of the way so that she could be with the man she’d chosen at the time.
Just so you know, there’s been more and more gathering speculation that Pelzer’s story isn’t credible. Some links that are related if anyone is interested…
NY Times
snopes discussion
another book review
and there are more to be found if various searchs are done.
If you were going to put this on the main page then why bother PM-ing me?
I’m tired and for the sake of expediency, I’ll just reprint my response to you here. I trust that will meet with your statisfaction. G’night. - Jesse.
Re: I have not Pitted you, but…
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluecanary
…making sweeping statements and backing them up with reference to the Bible will get a lot of people heated up on this board.
This is not a place for missionary work if that’s what you are thinking - most people here are atheist and/or agnostic and you are not going to change their minds. You would be far from the first were that the case.
In my opinion, this post - particularly in the context of the thread it was in - was witnessing. It was certainly inflammatory.
bluecanary
Afternoon bluecanary!
While I don’t agree with your opinion/assessment, I’ll keep what you said in mind. If I were going to witness on this forum I wouldn’t be disguising it in subtleties. I can’t separate myself from my worldview anymore than you can from yours. We are who we are and if I can allow people their atheistic and agnostic opinions, why can’t they permit me the line of reasoning to which I subscribe? Or is freedom of thought and speech as markedly slanted on this forum as you’re suggesting? If you’re going to have it at all it has to apply to everyone, and ALL opinions and perspectives should be equally welcomed and respected. That’s how I’ve conducted my forum for the past ten years and it works perfectly well.
Would you be making such a fuss if I’d referenced Anna Karenina or Moby Dick instead? Or perhaps the works of Aristotle? No? Then why the Bible? Fully one-third of the population of the world lives and dies by the contents of the Bible so I hardly represent a minority.
I’m sorry, but I write at night and I’m long past tired. If you have anything else to say to me it’ll have to wait until tomorrow.
I’d say God be with you, but…
Jesse.
My mom’s mother went to her grave with a total and utter dislike for her other daughter (my mom’s sister), for reasons that no one can really seem to grasp.
Jesse Leigh: FFS.
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I put it on the main page, and then I thought about it a bit more and because I didn’t want the thread to be hijacked I sent you a PM. I thought you’d take the hint not to respond to me in the thread without me having to say it explicitly. Obviously not.
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I’m not sure if it’s against board rules, but FYI it’s not good form to repost Private Messages in the public forum.
In the town where I grew up there was a kid in my class who was the hated kid in his family. He had two older brothers who were sports stars, popular, well liked, scholastically superior. He was only scholastically superior. He also had a younger sister who was popular and scholastically superior, but not athletic.
He was picked on by his older brothers, by his younger sister, and by his parents. Not to the extent of David Pelzer, but even outsiders could see it. His parents didn’t abuse him, but although they might attend every single athletic contest, dance recital, etc. by his siblings, they couldn’t be bothered to come to his band concerts or even give him a ride. He was the only one whose parents weren’t present when he got inducted into the National Honor Society. He got token presents for christmas and birthdays–clothing items, socks–while his siblings got the newest cool thing that they wanted. His older brothers and his little sister got sent to the orthodontist–he didn’t. But he did get his cavities filled.
Now, going to school with him, you could say he was a bit of a whiner, but actually considering what he went through he was pretty level-headed. He was just the ignored child. Once he said that after two boys, his parents had expected him to be a girl, and were disappointed he wasn’t. For some reason, he just didn’t fit in with his own family, and after high school he got a scholarship to an out-of-state school, left, and never went back. (I know this because he and I ended up in the same town again, for awhile, after college, because I never went back, either.)
His father was a psychiatrist and his mother was a social worker.
Jesse Leigh: Here is the Pit thread. This thread has been hijacked enough.
I have an older sister & brother, my mother doesn’t “particularly care for “(her words) myself or my sister. My brother & I are very close, my sister isn’t close to either of us nor has she bonded with her three sons. My brother has two daughters, he favors the youngest. I have no children or a relationship with my mother. Yes, it’s depressing but what can you do? My mother chose the favor one child & that child has repeated that behavior. My mother’s relationship with my sister has had a negative effect on my sister’s relationship with her children. I’ve never “bonded” with my mother; I don’t tend to have deep lasting personal relationships but I don’t miss them either. A lot of people have parental issues, parents have issues of their own. What can you do?
Dang it. Sorry to continue the hijack, but I initially listed the wrong NY Time’s article (it’s good too, just not what I’d meant to post – too many windows open at the same time!). Anyway, an interesting take from Slate and the correct piece after all. Sorry.
/bye jack
Bluecanary - after what you just sent to me (your second message) I do believe you’ve nullified any ambition you may hold regarding having the qualifications and moral rectitude to lecture anyoneabout etiquette and ‘Good form.’ Good grief! You’re not going to hurt me with your hatred and vitriol but you are poisoning yourself - sadly.
There was nothing in the list of rules and regs that stated one may not post PM’s, but in any case, I’m absolutely certain that what you sent me this time, between the name-calling and the other less than classy expressions you chose, should be against anyone’s code of decency, morality, self-respect, and humanity. I warned you what would happen if you didn’t take your ball and go home when it comes to me, and I urge you not to test me on this point. As I told you, I don’t entertain behind the scenes interactions - unless they are civil.
As I said, have a NICE day - it’s so much more peaceful.
Jesse.
Jesse Leigh: Did you somehow fail to notice this post?
William Faulkner’s As I Lay Dying is about this very thing: a mother who loves one child more than the others because she was in love with his father, and who despises and alienates another. It’s actually an interesting exploration of how the scapegoated, excluded child copes with being on the outside, until his family really needs to blame a tragedy on someone.
Afternooon bluecanary!
Nope, I chose not to notice it - there’s a difference. If you wish to continue to spew hateful remarks at me, you’re going to have to argue with yourself. I’m a pacifist.
Have a sweet and peaceful day. - Jesse.